K8 winter project need input

[Neil]

Ok well I’m going to be keeping my car in a family members garage for the winter my father and I have decided that we were going to take on the task of doing some work to the stock motor since I cannot do the ZE swap and even though the ZE is cheaper id like to get as much out of the stock K8 as possible.

My first plans are as soon as I get my next paycheck if I have enough money to cover shipping I’ll be ordering a set of Stainless steel headers from Pat at psituning.ca I know that’s a first step. I already have 2.25 exhaust, And I have CAI.

I’ve been looking at http://www.interpreptuning.com/ and http://www.gude.com/ for the ported & polished cylinder heads, throttle body and camshafts. I know the interprep stuff is for the ZE so I’ve emailed them with a big letter asking them a few questions about the K8. I was wondering since I will have from December until summer to work on the car in the garage what would be the first best steps in getting good gains over the winter?

My father is a machinist and has access to a lathe? I think that’s how it spelled, and a few other machinist tools. He also has friends who work for a steel company who made me an aluminum battery box for free. I am not sure what sort of deals they would give us if we had to have anything made but knowing that they’re available for help you guys might have ideas of what to ask them about for making or fabricating things. Down the road after I get as much done to my K8 as possible I was thinking of looking into turbo charging it but that isn’t any time soon that’s more of a “phase 3” and providing I have the budget and don’t get involved with another money bag girlfriend!

My goal in the very end (including the possible turbo down the road) is id like to have the stock K8 running close to 200hp even if its not at the wheels id like to see equal performance to a stock or little modified ZE.

I hope I’ve sort of explain what I’m looking for answers for. And if you guys could throw any things I will need or any tips and advice at me I’d greatly appreciate it. I know this is a long post but I wanted to explain as clearly as I could.

Thank you all in advance if I do not get to reply right away.

[Nallboy]

Originally posted by Didlin:
I cannot do the ZE swap and even though the ZE is cheaper id like to get as much out of the stock K8 as possible.

My goal in the very end (including the possible turbo down the road) is id like to have the stock K8 running close to 200hp even if its not at the wheels id like to see equal performance to a stock or little modified ZE.

You've got a long, EXPENSIVE road ahead of you. For you wallet's sake, I hope you change your mind and get a ZE. My 2c. Good Luck.

[lakersfan1]

You're not going to see 200 crank horsepower until you take the leap to turbocharging. I think you'd be lucky to see 160 crank HP with intake, exhaust, and cam mods AND high compression pistons. Also, if you plan on doing all this work, I hope you plan on rebuilding the engine with all new gaskets and bearings.

[TsiMiata]

If its an emissions issue at least get a KLDE. Your honestly wasting your money & effort on the K8.

[Neil]

Yea we were going to rebuild the K8, The reason I am trying stay clear of the DE swap is because for some reason every time I mention it to any mechanic’s here they all run and scream, And even though my father is willing to help rebuild the K8 he doesn’t want to attempt the DE swap himself. I can understand why but I also realize that in a way he’s crazy for being willing to pull the K8 rebuild it but not pull the K8 and figure out how to get the DE swap working. I’m out of ideas other than just working the stock motor though because I know a few people who will take on the task of turbo charging the car but they wont do help with the engine swap.

I know everyone is strong towards the ZE & DE swap when it comes to more power but in my case were I live I just don’t think its going to be possible without really twisting a few arms.

[bmwm3guy]

Hey man, I am 19 years old, studying to be a lawyer... NEVER worked on a motor in m life besides oil changes and stuff. I did my own KLZE swap from start to finish a few weeks ago (Its not working, but its not my fault, the motor is blown... So I gotta do it again this weekend with a new ZE) myself and had little or no problems. Honestly there is way more that enough info on the web, and all of us on MX-3.com would LOVE to help you with your problems you encounter.

Dude, do yourself a favour and just do it with your dad. It wil be a learning experience beyond imaginable. And since it is a winter project, you have plenty of time to "measure twice cut once" kinda thing. Take your time and you'll see that it is really not that complicated with all the help out there. If ever you need help on something Ill personally try my best to hep you.

Add me to MSN if you want... I'd be glad to help, but Id hate to see you not necessarily "waste" you money, but not get what you should after dumping so much money into a project. You know you're gonna wanna kick some @ss when you're done

[TsiMiata]

The difference between doing a DE swap and taking out your K8 involves three more steps-

1. Change the ecu- 20 minute job
2. change the air meter- you've got it out anyway
3. throw away the K8

[Neil]

Originally posted by TsiMiata:
The difference between doing a DE swap and taking out your K8 involves three more steps-

1. Change the ecu- 20 minute job
2. change the air meter- you've got it out anyway
3. throw away the K8

Wouldnt i also require the DE wiring harness? And thanks for the very nice offer bmwm3guy, over the next month im going to be talking to alot of people in town, i spent most of today talking with a few different people, i still have a few more people to talk to about both in town here. I really like the idea of keeping the K8 more than swapping though, but will see how things turn out with the rest of people i still havent gone to see.

[lakersfan1]

Originally posted by Didlin:

Originally posted by TsiMiata:
The difference between doing a DE swap and taking out your K8 involves three more steps-

1. Change the ecu- 20 minute job
2. change the air meter- you've got it out anyway
3. throw away the K8

Wouldnt i also require the DE wiring harness?

No. EVERYRHING is the same except those parts. You can use all the timing parts off your K8, valve covers, timing covers, accesory pulleys, air conditioning, power steering, engine mounts, transmission, alternator, distributor.......pull all that crap from the K8 and it bolts right up to the KL engines. You literally only need the KL engine block and heads, the KL ECU, and the KL VAF. If you want to do it right, you'll also use the KL intake manifold and throttlebody, but all you have to do to get that to fit is to fabricate your own intake piping. If you're already pulling the K8, you're only adding another couple hours of work to swap the accesories from one block to the other. The rebuild kits will even be cheaper if you get the KL rebuild kit since the K8's are much less common.

[Redhouse]

So... had some of you gone to his car-domain site you would have noticed that he owns a 1996 OBD-II mx3..

the engine swap and ecu setup is NOT an easy task - not in the same way an OBD-I klze / de swap is.

Trust me on this... I know that it *can* and *has* been done.. with varying degrees of success.

All I'm saying is its not as easy as some of you are making it out to be - because of the OBD-II ecu and harness issue

[IanL]

That's why he asked about the wiring harness - there is no KL ECU (OBDI or OBDII) which is compatible with the MX-3(OBDII) harness. Even if you get a KL ECU from an OBDII Probe or MX-6/626, you have a 100% rewire to do - the connectors will be the same, but the pin assignments are totally different (except for one wire if it's an ATX!)

In fact, if you really wanted to do it, it would be better to fit a KL OBDI ECU, because the pin changes would only be 24 instead of about 70. And the extra connector in the MX-3 is totally OBDII, so you could just ignore it.

[TsiMiata]

Damn that OBD2!

[lakersfan1]

Originally posted by Greg Ridout:
So... had some of you gone to his car-domain site you would have noticed that he owns a 1996 OBD-II mx3..

Oh. Well then he's screwed. Damned Canadians. As if worrying about Canadian dollar conversion wasn't enough.

[Neil]

I found this link about doing the 626 swap.

http://www.mx3gsr.freeservers.com/myswap.htm

After read his swap, It laid it all out pretty cleary in my eyes, If thats what we have to do than we are now going to start looking into it. But if i need the wiring harness and theres rewiring to be done i think i have to go talk to my mechanic again. I think i need to start compiling a check list of everything that would be needed.

<small>[ October 07, 2004, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: Didlin ]</small>

[IanL]

Originally posted by Didlin:
...But if i need the wiring harness and theres rewiring to be done i think i have to go talk to my mechanic again.

If you go for it, you can have a copy of my spreadsheet showing the ECU pin assignments for the K8s and KLs - OBDI and OBDII.