new n different mazda build

[19mazdamx393]

for all the hardcore mazda only ppl who think mazda is the only way im sorry. i kno im going to be called an idiot by many but i was wondering if this has already been done or if no one has ever thought of it. so im looking for any help or collective thoughts on this or if anyone has measurements. im thinking about taking a mazda block say the 1.6 sohc stock in the early mx3 or a 1.8 dohc even and slappin a honda head with vtec on top of that block. im a custom kinda guy so it doesnt matter how much time or how difficult it would be. and as long as the bolt holes either A. exactly line up or B. dont line up at all i can make that work as i have a plan for that already. i would then use the honda computer n other necessities to run the vtec. im just looking for something different and interesting that no one has done yet to see if the power output is great for such a cheap route as i can get this stuff at a junkyard or craigslist or friends. i kno how idiotic it sounds but im looking for any helpful input on the situation. thanks.

[wytbishop]

I'm afraid what you are suggesting is totally impossible.

[RobMinhas]

I honestly don't see how this would be easily possible or how it would be cost effective at all.

[Sleeper6]

For that kind of funding your best off looking into matching cosworth escort parts to the mazdas if you want to go crazy, Vtec isnt all that impressive really to drop a couple g into heads for 'vteck yo!

[19mazdamx393]

im more lookin to c if the head/ compression chambers would line up if i did say.... bolt it to the block straight up with no problem. i would have no problem adjusting a little bit as long as the chambers would line up at the same point as the timing belt would. like i said i enjoy customization....im a builder not an assembler. its cost effective if ur careful, parts shop, and do ur homework. im basically trying to get the answers to my homework bc i dont have the block or head to do the work lol. just was lookin for some helpful hints or thoughts besides its totally impossible. it may not be as easy as bolting in cosworth parts or putting on a header and some new exhaust but hey i like a good challenge.

[kulluminati777]

i like this idea. Im a mazda man to the fullest but honda makes WAY supieror and better quality engines. As far as mating a Mazda power plant with the honda series of power plants may prove to be REALLY challenging and the configuration may give you less torque/HP then a K8 and then you would need the engine managment, proper tuning, custom mounts custom plates or adapters to fit the blocks together.A little TOO much work for next to no gain but just to say you did it. I may get a bunch of viruses and Trojans sent to my email after saying this but how about just swapping over an entire honda power plant to the MX3. That would be cool.

[MrMazda92]

I'm with you Kulluminati... I'm not a huge Honda fan myself, so it kills me to say this: Swapping the engine/trans, going for custom motor mounts, custom axles, and aftermarket EMS is the only way this'll be done within any current forum member's budget. You MIGHT be able to Frankenstein something together otherwise, but you'll spend a lot of money, a hell of a lot of time, and likely your sanity in the process.

Is it impossible? No... Will it be affordable? No... Can/Will you do it? That depends on you man, but you could have a 500 BHP BPT with a nearly bulletproof transmission for similar cost. If you're going for unique, there are plenty of other methods to do so, that won't break the bank!

Props for thinking outside the box, but I hope you'll put that energy and enthusiasm into other places!

[wytbishop]

I was trying not to be mean.

There are a lot of things that won't work. The combustion chambers would have to be (very) close to the same diameter and spacing and they won't be. The water passages would have to line up and they won't. The oil passages would have to line up and they won't. The head would have to be very close to the same overall size and shape as the Mazda head and it won't be. The timing belt sprockets would have to be on the EXACT same plane as the stock ones and they won't be.

It's a different head designed by a different company to fit on a completely different engine. The only thing that the two engines have in common is that they burn gasoline and have 4 cylinders.

Here's something that's feasible. Design a new head that encorporates a VVT system and have it machined from billet.

[Josh]

It is completely different. NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT - IT WILL NOT WORK. Wont line up, engine rotates the opposite direction, INtake and Exhaust are on the wrong side. The only way to do it is to recast a MAZDA head to take V tec cams.

What you can do is get yourself a BP block and run an 02 - 05 Miata head which has a similar variant of V tec or Mazda's derivative, not the same but as close as you can get with a Mazda. Would require you to switch over to OBDII and splicing the harness to cure your need for customization or building.

Or you can do a FORD motor and trans swap to a Z tec from the Focus.

[Mi|<E]

All I could think of was "FLAME ON"

[wytbishop]

I think it's cool that guys want to find new ways to do things and there are lots of parts of a car where that kind of thinking can bring about cool new ways of doing things. But the engine is an area of overwhealming complexity when looked at from a core design perspective.

Thinking outside the box is great, but you have to know what the inside of the box looks like and how all things inside the box work before you can venture outside of it.

Learn how to take one apart and reassemble it first. Then learn how to take a good one and make it better (the stage most of us spend the majority of our lives in). Then you can start to figure out how to make a new one altogether.

[19mazdamx393]

THANK YOU kulluminati and mrmazda and everyone else THAT is wat i was looking for lol. support. i think itd be a whack build really different in itself and no one else would have it especially in the state i live in. i kno ur not trying to be mean or anything wytbishop im sure half the questions asked by ppl r some half baked idea so i understand that. i kno how motors work ive taken a hell of a lot apart gas and diesel both. ive rebuilt/changed/modified a ton of different stuff on different motors, not to sound like a jackass but im somewhat above averaged car knowledge. this is just an idea in the process not like i tore my car apart first and now im stuck at this point. i used to have an mx3 (lil bastard was fun as hell) but stock wouldnt hold with my brothers also stock civic after about 3rd gear. i like hondas vvt system too and im going to look at chamber and runner characteristics and see which flows better too. also the head id be taking is off a honda d16 which is a 1.6 sohc vtec, just about same as the mx3 minus vtec. id love to swap a whole honda motor in there too i was bouncing that idea around and i still might if i find a solid candidate. and as much as id love to throw in a k8 or get ahold of kl and have 500 WHP i have another car for that lol, its just the matter of different, custom, whatever you wanna call it. i have an old chevy nova that seriously looks like no other that i or any of the ppl that compliment it have ever seen lol so i just like the different. extensive work wouldnt be a problem either, just sounds like a badass project to me and as far as ECM i was thinkin runnin the honda ecu and chip it with the hondata tuning program and tune from my laptop. itd be complicated yes but to have that end result, the FRANKENMAZDA, would be truly awesome to me.

[MrMazda92]

If you've got the budget, time to invest, and drive... You should take a look at this:
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.ph ... 251&page=2

It's a K8 idea that a few people bounced around, but you would definitely be going into mostly undiscovered territory in the process... The groundwork has been laid out, but nobody really took it far enough to get results.

I know it's not what you originally asked for, but I can relate to your goal/mission of trying to be different. There's always a different path to the same goal, just try to learn from other people's trials, errors, triumphs, and methods.

It'd be fairly plug and play, as far as bolting it into the car, after you got the engine built up... That'll be the challenge, making it run at 10,000 RPMs for extended periods of time without going boom. If I had the money, I'd do it for shits and giggles. Imagine the heads you'd turn at your local track!

[19mazdamx393]

i looked thru it and it looks like theyre talking about taking a k8 and squaring it up (bore n stroke) and throwing in some higher cams is that right? sounds like loads of fun if u can get it up to 10 grand itd be hilarious and sound awesome. its def something id take into consideration to get a screamin mx3 with some major balls under it. i kno in the muscle world if u take for example a chevy 454 big block and square it up.....it turns out torque that hands out concussions to everyone in a 10 mile radius lol so im guessing if u apply the same technique plus a set of hi cams in a mazda itd rip the car out from underneath you. so yea if i can find a k series ill look into price of cams n valves to take the abuse n total up the cost. itd still be different lol but to build a car that would rev that would be an accomplishment for sure. and still one of a kind around my area. any recommendations on trans type to use? ive heard the transmissions hooked to the f2t r some of the toughest mazda had in those years but idk how true that is?

[19mazdamx393]

(just an idea of what ive done, sort of a life story so you dont have to read it) but also i just want to add that my sanity....i waved bye to that a while ago. between my nova and a few other projects including the mx3 i had, sanity was a luxury i couldnt afford. and to give some background ive takin tractor, car, truck....just about every kind of motor apart, some to scrap but a good amount went back together and ran. with no spare parts!!!! haha but ive also taken motors such as the chevy 350, built one up on a super tight budget (under $800) did all the work myself except havin the heads magnafluxed for cracks n had some different springs put in them, even put in a cam with that price and it ran really damn good even in a truck. i was runnin about 92mph down the interstate in 2nd gear! out of a 3 speed auto. didnt do a ridiculous amount with my mazda since that was the first time under the hood of something with that much electronics n i was a little afraid bc it was my daily driver at the time. but i have slammed a chevy 454 big block into my 1977 chevy nova which isnt meant for that big of a motor at all what so ever. that was a summer of pulling my hair out having to lift an almost 800 lb motor in and out of the motor compartment figuring out wat i had to do to get it to fit by myself and finally got it dropped in after my sanity left, only to start having problems with the strength of the car. so i had to put in some pieces to make it more rigid. then it stopped twisting the car so my next problem was traction...or complete lack thereof. still working that one out but its still been really fun and id do it all over again bc it was a good challenge, and its super unique, which is wat i want from my next build which i wanna use an mx3 for the car bc it was a really fun and nice car.