Engine swap (KLZE) - tips for someone that has zero experien

[iRobsta]

I want to eventually swap this engine my 94 GS (k8). I've found these few engines online and transmission Do these look like reasonable prices?
http://www.torontojdm.com/cart.php?targ ... tegory_id= < JDM KLZE just engine for 849$
http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/klze-do ... ifold.html < JDM KLZE straight manafold engine for 1,045$
http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/klze-do ... 93-97.html < JDM KLZE engine for 845$
http://www.jdmtigerjapanese.com/klze-5- ... 93-97.html < KLZE 5 speed tranny 495$
Got a quote on shipping from "jdmtigerjapanese" and it'll cost 100$ to deliver to my door.

Besides buying the actually engine and tranny, I know nothing else of what I would need in terms of doing the swap. I could get a second car and leave this one in my garage while I work on it but I have zero experience with this kind of stuff. The most complicated things I've done is installed a full sound system (speakers + subs) and changed my oil and oil filter. Tool wise I can rent and my dad has a few tools but not even he has done any work like this before.

For labor wise, my mechanic said he could swap an engine for me if all the wires and such matched for about 500 - 600$.
If this question has been asked, I'm sorry but I used search and I couldn't find any results.

I know its good to inspect my engine mounts and struts and such to make sure their in good condition before swapping this engine in, and I'll be needing a new clutch I believe. I also feel like doing a full engine service while the engine is out would be an excellent idea (timing belt, water pump etc.). If doing something like this on a MX-3 is a bad idea and I should go with an easier car, might you recommend me a good starting point? This is my DD so I need to run and it can't be out of commission for long.

Some info on my car if need be:
1994 mx-3 GS
172K km's
Used full synthetic on it ever since I got it (seems to burn oil though ...)
Body and interior is in EXCELLENT shape except for some rust oils around my rocker and fender. I'm paying someone to professionally fix that for me before winter comes around. He's fixing it for 450$ and painting and from everyone I've talked to I was told it was a steal (I know the mechanic very well).

If you need any more information from let me know. All advice will be taken in to considerations and thank you for taking the time to read this post.

[Redline322]

http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=47020
That link will give you all the info you need, also in the V6 FAQ. Do your homework on your engine options, most of it is plug and play and can be done in a full day, but you should plan to be carless for a few days for any issues that might pop up. Any maintenance you can do to the engine before you put it in is usually worthwhile since there wont be much room to change things like water pumps and timing belts while it is in the car and less things to go wrong in the future.

[Daninski]

Have you even looked in the FAQ yet? We don't mind helping but do your home work first. Tiger Jap has ripped a lot of people off so buyer beware with them. There's no way with the information and experience I have that I would buy a motor without going and checking it out first. Possibly get the mechanic to call them and have him tell them he's going to inspect the engine first before install. There's better JDM dealers than them. Have you checked the JDM dealers in Montreal?
So do more searching and check the FAQ section. There's so much info on ZE swaping you should be drowning in info if you adjust your Search words.

Anyway Pat Diesel has been around for a long time so his write ups should set you on the right course.

[iRobsta]

http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=47020
That link will give you all the info you need, also in the V6 FAQ. Do your homework on your engine options, most of it is plug and play and can be done in a full day, but you should plan to be carless for a few days for any issues that might pop up. Any maintenance you can do to the engine before you put it in is usually worthwhile since there wont be much room to change things like water pumps and timing belts while it is in the car and less things to go wrong in the future.

Thank you. This is extremely useful. I don't think I'm doing the "Search" correctly as I can never find any good results when I use it.

[Nd4SpdSe]

Why you looking at buying a trans?

Indeed, beware Tiger Japan, only worth while if you go in person, and you know what you're looking for

[iRobsta]

Why you looking at buying a trans?

Indeed, beware Tiger Japan, only worth while if you go in person, and you know what you're looking for

I was told by someone on this site I need a new trans if I was going to swap the KLZE in for the k8? Is this not true?

Okay, is there any trusted website I could go to to order a engine like this from?
Like I said before, this would be my FIRST project and I plan on buying/renting the tools as I go. I am only 19 (not saying my age has anything to do with it).
I am very excited though. I'm going to be checking local junk yards for maybe a 626 or mx6 and get me a de instead if finding a ze is much difficult. I would also love to try doing a small rebuild on an engine, but again, I would have very little knowledge of what I'm doing. I've always been a hands on guy though.

[Daninski]

Can we start by asking where the hay your from since you didn't take the time to put it in your profile. With that info we could better direct you where you may want to go to buy an engine.
Whoever told you you needed a new trans is totally incorrect unless you led them to believe you had a problem with your exiting trans.
Finally, I think it's total BS you couldn't find any thing using the Search. We're not here to spoon feed you. Google JDM Toronto, Montreal, where ever then ask us what we think about any dealer you may be interested to buy from.
We are here to help.

[diezzel]

Spoon feed me . . Your not nice . Come on.

[RobMinhas]

Spoon feed me . . Your not nice . Come on.

I just found someone locally who'd spoonfeed me hahah, looks like Rob here needs to do the same.

[iRobsta]

Haha, yeah, I guess it does seem like I'm asking for someone to hold my hand. Sorry then guys, didn't mean to give off that impression.
Love to ask someone here locally for help but personally I have 0 connections other than my mechanic but he's too busy to help out a guy like me.

I updated my profile, so to make things easier I'm about a 45 min drive from Toronto.
I found this place with googling "JDM Toronto" : http://www.torontojdm.com/cart.php?targ ... tegory_id=
The engine is for 849$ like the rest of the engines I found. The location of these guys is over a hours drive, but less than two. What do you guys think about this dealer? (Better? )

On the note of the engine swap, I was recommended to change what I believe it was "valve seals" or something like that? They were saying that the ones from japan are pretty garbage and should be replaced. Also, I would need a new chip, correct? If this is still considered me asking for "spoon feeding" help then don't answer. I just need to figure this stuff out is all.

[Nd4SpdSe]

I'm feeling nice and helpful today, so here's some help...

Doing some searches goes along way, especially if your new to this. We can spoon feel you the information, and you may understand the information, but until you comprehend the informatiom, you're not ready yet. Read, search, read, and when you think you've ready enough, search and read some more.

First the KL, DE or ZE, pops in as stock. You can keep everything in there and replace just the engine if you really wanted to. Even if you really want a KL31-cammed ZE, you can even use your stock K8 IM (reducing power however) until your source a curved-neck ZE or Millenia DE intake manifold. You can even ue yourAll depends on how cheap you want to be, and how reliable you want your car. Ideallly, an engine swap is the perfect time to do preventative maintenance like the belts and water pump.

Essentials: new clutch to handle the power and a proper ECU and VAF combo for it to run right. Probinator/Stroker100 chips work well, but they seem to be hard to get sometimes. Ideally, they're programmed to the specs of your car (motor, cams, VAF), so best to get one that suits your needs, and not just anyone.

Trans works fine. Up to you if you want to keep the 4.38:1 gearing of the Mx-3/Probe or the taller 4.11:1 of the Mx-6/626. Most just use their Mx-3 trans.

Actually it's the valve springs to keep the valves from floating and 7000+ and retainers that crack and drop valves from constantly overrevving the motor. Those are what people say to upgrade. Honestly, they're just fine unless yor abusive, meaning: The KLZE had a 7000 redline, don't go beyond, regardless of where the rev and fuel cutoffs are. Just cause it'll let you rev to 7800 and cause it "sounds so pretty" doesn't mean you should. Same goes with people reving their car, in the driveway, to redline, when the motor is cold (or even hot, bad to do with that with no load on the motor), and stuff like that, and you should be fine. Don't be stupid and take care and respect the motor, and she'll treat ya well. I took mine to redline a few times a day, honestly, but never more. Got just over 100'000kms on the motor before the throttle cable went while pulling her out of the garage, caused the throttle to stick open, bounced off the rev limier several times, and guess what...If you plan on being abusive, or just paranoid, the KLDE valvetrain is a cheap upgrade.

[wytbishop]

I will give you the unabridged version since I hate my job and this is more interesting than work. It's very simple.

First, unless you are totally useless and/or don't have any tools at all, you should be able to do the swap on your own. Even if you have no experience it's such an easy swap you can learn as you go.

Second, do not buy an engine from tigerjapanese under any circumstances. Years and years of bad reputation. Even if you did luck out and get a decent engine from them they do not deserve your business.

Third, you might have heard that some seals will need to be changed on the engine you purchase. While this is not a bad idea, I wouldn't say it's strictly necessary. The ZE's that get shipped over are bought out pretty quickly in most cases so I find it unlikely that the one you buy will have been sitting for a really long time, which would tend to dry out the seals. If you have the budget and want to go the extra mile then sure, change the valve cover gasakets and the valve stem seals. Both good things to do.

The other common sentiment is to change the timing set, water pump and oil pump while you have the engine out of the car. Again, if you have the budget and want to go the extra mile none of those things are a bad idea. However, if you are careful to make sure to get a good engine that was well taken care of there is no reason why any of those things should need to be replaced. I inspected my timing belt and idlers and they were original so I changed them. My water pump and oil pump were next to perfect so I did not change them.

Here is the important stuff...

INTAKE MANIFOLD: ZE's with a straight intake manifold will interfere with the brake booster/master cylinder. If the only engine you can get has the straight neck you will want to change that manifold for either a curved neck manifold from another ZE (some of the importers have them and will sell you one) or a similar manifold from a Mazda Millenia with a 2.5L V6 (not the "S" version...). Your original K8 intake manifold will bolt onto the ZE engine but it has smaller ports of different shape so it's not at all ideal for the new larger engine, but some people have gone that route temporarily while hunting for the correct manifold.

INTAKE PIPING: Most people take this opportunity to remove the stock airbox and install a cone type fliter with 2-1/2" or 3" piping straight to the throttle body. There are lots of posts on what people have done with that. The stock airflow meter (called a VAF because it is a Vane Air Flow meter, not because it is a Volumetric meter) is the same as the JDM one that the ZE was born with so just use it. You only have to worry about changing it if you're using an ECU from a DE...which I'm not even going to talk about. If you remove the stock airbox there will be a vacuum hose that will have no place to go. don't sweat it. It's more or less meaningless.

ENGINE COMPUTER: Your stock ECU will also work with the new engine, but again it's not ideal. It has a fuel map that is correct for a 1.8L engine, not a 2.5L engine. It is also programmed to open the VRIS valves at the appropriate RPM for the 1.8 which is not the same as the 2.5's. There are a couple of solutions for this. 1. Purchase the stock ECU that matches the engine you're buying when you buy the engine if possible. 2. Purchase a K8 ECU that has been modified to work with a curved neck ZE from another member here or elsewhere on the interwebz. 3. Try to get ahold of a guy named Stoker100 on either Probetalk.com or clubprotege.com (search you'll find it) and buy the chip you need to modify your stock ECU.

EXHAUST: Your stock exhaust manifolds are extremely restrictive to the 2.5L ZE but they will bolt on and the stock 1-7/8" piping is also a bit restrictive for this engine. Alot of people keep the stock system temporarily while sorting out a permanent exhaust solution but it really kills a lot of power. Most people buy EBAY headers for a 93'-97' MX-6 and redo the entire exhaust system. The MX-6 headers will not line up with the rest of the stock exhaust system and the piping is too small anyway so just do it. The common approach is 2.25" or 2.5" piping through a nice long resonator to a good quality muffler. Some run a CAT some don't. You ahve SMOG rules there so you will probably have to. I run 2.25" stainless, mandrel bent tubing to a 18" Magnaflow resonator then a 14x9" oval dual tip magnalow muffler. It's a bit loud. Search around and you'll see what other people are doing. this is the most expensive addition to the project in my experience.

TEMPERATURE SENSORS: I'm not going to explain it all now...you can search and learn more. Suffice it to say that some K series engines have more temp sensors than others. If you're using your stock K8 ECU it will be looking for the same number of sensors that your K8 has. Being a 94' it should have 3. They are located on the engine side coolant filler neck. There is a decent chance that the ZE you buy will have a slightly different filler neck than you stock K8 with only 2 sensors. My advice is this...if you are buying the ECU that goes with the engine you buy, don't change anything. If you are using your stock ECU, regardless of chips etc., swap the filler neck from your K8 onto the ZE.

EGR: Japanese engines don't have this feature. So your stock ECU will look for it (unless it is modified to ignore this fact) and throw a check engine light. The ZE won't have one but there may be an open hole where a block off plate is supposed to be mounted on the back of the block. My engine was missing the block off plate so I installed my EGR valve on the back of the block and just left it disconnected. The default position of the EGR is closed so if nothing is connected it will just sit there closed. There is a port on the exhaust headers that will have to be plugged as well because you're not going to connect it to the EGR valve.

DISTRIBUTOR: If the ZE comes with a distributor, it will be different from your stock one. Being a 94' your ECU wiring is unique. Just put your stock K8 distributor onto the ZE and move on. Don't argue. Just do it.

MOTOR MOUNTS: I have Mazdaspeed mounts and their great. I would not worry about AWR or filling your stock ones unless something like that is readily available to you. I don't feel it's necessary at all unless you plan on working the engine pretty hard.

OTHER ACCESSORIES: The alternator is different in that it has a separate ground wire. Use the stock K8 one. ZE throttle linkage is different which isn't a problem, but the JDM throttle cable is different from your stock cable as the driver is on wrong side. You may have to move the mounting position of the cable on the ZE intake manifold to get your stock cable to adjust properly.

CLUTCH: I do recommend replacing the clutch while the engine is out unless it's fairly new. It doesn't have to be "stage 2" or anything fancy. It's only 180whp...at best. Exedy stock replacement. Cheap. Good quality. Resurface the flywheel. good to go.

To recap...

1) sort out your ECU.
2) find either a Curved neck ZE or a Millenia intake manifold to swap onto your straight neck ZE
3) inspect the timing belt, valve cover gaskets, etc. Replace as your budget allows.
4) buy EBAY exhaust headers for MX-6
5) pull the K8, swap the distributor, swap the alternator, swap the coolant crossover tube (if necessary), swap your stock exhaust manifolds on (so you can bolt up your stock exhaust and drive to the exhaust shop where your new headers and exhaust will be assembled)
6) sort out the EGR
7) bolt your stock tranny up with a new clutch and resurfaced flywheel installed
8 ) reinstall

Drive away.

[Nd4SpdSe]

ENGINE COMPUTER: Your stock ECU will also work with the new engine, but again it's not ideal. It has a fuel map that is correct for a 1.8L engine, not a 2.5L engine. It is also programmed to open the VRIS valves at the appropriate RPM for the 1.8 which is not the same as the 2.5's. There are a couple of solutions for this. 1. Purchase the stock ECU that matches the engine you're buying when you buy the engine if possible. 2. Purchase a K8 ECU that has been modified to work with a curved neck ZE from another member here or elsewhere on the interwebz. 3. Try to get ahold of a guy named Stoker100 on either Probetalk.com or clubprotege.com (search you'll find it) and buy the chip you need to modify your stock ECU.

Probably would ad about KL31 and KL36 ECU's. They're the perfect match for the stock K8 JE50 VAF, but the VRIS points are not properly set up for a curved-neck IM. Before Probinator and Stroker100 chips were available, these were the ECU's to use.

through a nice long resonator

That I would argue against. From experience and experimentation, it depends on the muffler. Running a single-tip muffler is much quieter and doesn't need a resonator. Most get a dual-tip for the OEM look, but these seem to make significantly more noise. This has been tested quite a bit by a few of us locally who ran single-tips, and by those with dual-tips not happy with how loud their cars were, and put things like tennis balls into one of the tips to get a great reduction in sound and resonance.

EGR:

Althought the EGR is an emission system function, and people do have a hard time passing their local emission tests with their ZE's, a properly running ZE will easilly pass a emission test if it's running properly.

DISTRIBUTOR: If the ZE comes with a distributor, it will be different from your stock one.

The stock ZE disty is a 7-nipple that requires an external coil. The motor doesn't usually come with the coil. As Wytbishop said, just use your original.

CLUTCH: I do recommend replacing the clutch while the engine is out unless it's fairly new. It doesn't have to be "stage 2" or anything fancy. [...] Exedy stock replacement. Cheap. Good quality. Resurface the flywheel. good to go.

If you want a new clutch, stick with reputable manufacturers. Cheap eBay "F1" should be avoided. The Exedy seems to be a really good clutch and is particularly affordable.

To recap...

On mine, we did all the belts, pullies, water pump and the such
Ran the stock exhaust and manifolds for a bit. My OEM exhaust was done and a stainless 2.5" ended up being done by the end of the year anyway. Headers weren't done for about a year after
Stock intake system, airbox and all was ran for about a year.
I ran a no EGR (KL36 ECU) and successfully passed 2 emission tests with my ZE with flying colors, under K8 specs.
Ran my original K8 trans for the entire time

[Daninski]

Just so you know, in Ontario the emission test standards have changed. You will need to pass emissions as the guidelines were set for your car unless you can show that the swap was done on or before 1999. So trying to get a ZE to pass is difficult if not impossible. (Ya Ya Mike we know, yours passed). Every person I know had to have their ZE tested under Hot Rod status in order to pass. The standards are lower under HR status. Going with a DE swap might be the smarter choice with this considered.

http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/environment/en ... 98201.html

[Nd4SpdSe]

Wow, almost everyone I know with ZE's passed...I hate to keep rehashing "how things were" in the "good old days', but talk to anyone of the old timers, Duncan, Krish, Ian, Uday, John at least. Even John passed with my MS and his turbo kit...