Need help with 92 323 I4 starting problems-Solved

[2fazed]

Last month I bought a 92 323 auto, for a commuter car. It had a starting problem, thus reason for it being sold. Seller said he parked it and it wouldn't start after. Seller said he put another maf, fuel filter, fuel pump(under backseat) tps, distributor, new spark plugs and wires in. I think he had a mechanic check it out. He was saying he thinks it might need a new computer.

When I got it, The spark plugs, wires were taken off. And it had a code 12 tps. Swapped the tps, and that solved the engine code. Put new plugs and wires in. Still wouldn't start. Went to the junk yard and got another ecu, distributor, and coil. Didn't change anything. I then took the disty and coil out of the 323 and through them in my Mx and it started up. So the disty, coil, spark plug, wires are all good. No engne codes, so I'm guessing the maf is good. All my fuses are good. I don't see any vacuum leaks. But I think it would at least start and stall if it was that. I can smell fuel when trying to start the car, so its getting fuel.

Most of my experience is on the 2.5 V6 engines. I've never really had starting problems on my I4 Mx, so this is new to me. Is there any solenoids or other sensors that I may be overlooking?

[Ryan]

Terrible mechanical timing, broken timing belt, a variety of fuses.

Does the pump run if you jump F/P and GND and turn the key to ON.

have you seen the spark with your own two eyes

Does it build compression?

[2fazed]

Terrible mechanical timing, broken timing belt, a variety of fuses.

Does the pump run if you jump F/P and GND and turn the key to ON.

have you seen the spark with your own two eyes

Does it build compression?

All the belts are good. I hope the timing belt didn't skip. I'm not sure how to check for that. I will check the pump and jump those tomorrow and post back. I forgot to put, my uncle and I did check the the plugs for spark, and my uncle says very strong. I did ask about compression, but my uncle said it still should start with low compression. It only has 133k on the odometer. And the tranny was changed last year.

[2fazed]

Terrible mechanical timing, broken timing belt, a variety of fuses.

Does the pump run if you jump F/P and GND and turn the key to ON.

have you seen the spark with your own two eyes

Does it build compression?

i checked the p/n and gnd and heard a buzzing noise coming from the rear. im guessing that was the rear fuel pump? whats the procedure for checking the timing belt, if it skipped?

[wytbishop]

Verify that cylinder #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke and then remove the disty cap and see if the rotor is pointing at the #1 pin...or very close to it.

A compression test will tell you very quickly if the timing belt is skipped or stripped. If the cams are out of phase with the pistons or not turning at all, the engine will not build compression. Also when a timing belt is broke the engine just sounds wrong when you turn it over. You can tell it's not working hard and you don't get the da-duh-duh da-duh-duh...it goes too fast and has the wrong sound.

To verify that fuel is being delivered by the injectors unplug the disty and crank the engine for 5-10 seconds then remove the plugs. They should be wet and smell of fuel. Then you know if there is fuel in the cylinders. If it has spark and fuel the only logical remaining issue is timing.

[2fazed]

Verify that cylinder #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke and then remove the disty cap and see if the rotor is pointing at the #1 pin...or very close to it.

A compression test will tell you very quickly if the timing belt is skipped or stripped. If the cams are out of phase with the pistons or not turning at all, the engine will not build compression. Also when a timing belt is broke the engine just sounds wrong when you turn it over. You can tell it's not working hard and you don't get the da-duh-duh da-duh-duh...it goes too fast and has the wrong sound.

To verify that fuel is being delivered by the injectors unplug the disty and crank the engine for 5-10 seconds then remove the plugs. They should be wet and smell of fuel. Then you know if there is fuel in the cylinders. If it has spark and fuel the only logical remaining issue is timing.

i checked and its definetly getting fuel. the spark plug was wet and you can smell the fuel in the engine bay. i peeked inside the timing belt cover, and the belt isnt broke. its pretty tight on there. im going tonight to buy a compression tester. no one rents them anymore. ill find out tomorrow about the compression.

[Daninski]

Check the timing belt as it may of skipped some teeth. 133k is at the end of a belts life. So far that's the only thing that makes sense.

[2fazed]

Check the timing belt as it may of skipped some teeth. 133k is at the end of a belts life. So far that's the only thing that makes sense.

ill first do the compression test. ill post the results. if it shows that the timing is the culprit. i just might go ahead and change the timing belt. anyone have have a good writeup on timing belt change for 4cl?

[2fazed]

Verify that cylinder #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke and then remove the disty cap and see if the rotor is pointing at the #1 pin...or very close to it.

A compression test will tell you very quickly if the timing belt is skipped or stripped. If the cams are out of phase with the pistons or not turning at all, the engine will not build compression. Also when a timing belt is broke the engine just sounds wrong when you turn it over. You can tell it's not working hard and you don't get the da-duh-duh da-duh-duh...it goes too fast and has the wrong sound.

To verify that fuel is being delivered by the injectors unplug the disty and crank the engine for 5-10 seconds then remove the plugs. They should be wet and smell of fuel. Then you know if there is fuel in the cylinders. If it has spark and fuel the only logical remaining issue is timing.

did the compression test. i know this is suppose to be done while engine is warm. here is the numbers while cold. 1. 205 2. 200 3. 205 4. 205. so what does this tell me?

[Ryan]

it tells you your compression gauge is very generous.

Max PSI stock is 185

But yeah, even so I'd say the motor is healthy by the closeness of the numbers.

I forget where we are now,

Spark?

Fuel?

Disty is spinning?

[2fazed]

ok, took the timing belt cover off and checked the timing. its timed correctly. belt didnt skip. actually looks fairly new. did tdc and the rotor on the disty wasnt lined up with #1. it goes straight up. so i guess either the disty isnt the right one for the car, the cam or crank pulley is in the wrong position. everything is good, compression, spark, fuel, timing.

[Ryan]

Have you seen the spark with your eyes yet ?

Just pull out a plug wire and hold it close to a nut, and peek between and look for spark while someone cranks. It should jump from the plug wire to the bolt without a plug or anything in it.

[2fazed]

Have you seen the spark with your eyes yet ?

Just pull out a plug wire and hold it close to a nut, and peek between and look for spark while someone cranks. It should jump from the plug wire to the bolt without a plug or anything in it.

let me be clear. the problem isnt the fuel or spark. its getting both. the timing isnt the problem either.

[Ryan]

Well that doesn't leave much else.

So I needed to ask again.

Its no longer trouble shooting if you go "nah, its not that."

If the timing is on, it sparks at the right time, and there is fuel, it WILL start. Its a mechanical system.

Does it try at all? Smell of pure fuel out the exhaust, or does it puff smoke out?

[2fazed]

Well that doesn't leave much else.

So I needed to ask again.

Its no longer trouble shooting if you go "nah, its not that."

If the timing is on, it sparks at the right time, and there is fuel, it WILL start. Its a mechanical system.

Does it try at all? Smell of pure fuel out the exhaust, or does it puff smoke out?

yes, it acts like it wants too. yes, very strong fuel smell. yes strong spark off plug. yes timing is correct. yes, if it was simple i wouldnt be posting.