FIXED: Help me figure out the problem!

[_-Night-Shade-_]

Hey guys, I need some help troubleshooting some issues with my KLZE. If you've been following my worklog then you know, but for those that haven't here's a summary - basically, ever since I did my KLZE swap it hasn't been running ideal. I'm running excessively rich, to the point that people who drive behind me say it reeks of fuel and I get occasional backfires between shifts and when I let go of the throttle. I'm getting crappy fuel economy, slightly rough idle, and there's noticeable hesitation during acceleration, so I'm pretty sure I'm not even getting my full power. I'm using a Probinator'ed DE ECU that's been chipped to my KLZE engine (KL31 Cams, KL02 VAF, Millenia IM).

Everything is hooked up correctly, and I have no CEL codes. Both VRIS are working. Here is a list of things I have already replaced or am using components from my K8 which I can trust as it ran perfectly:

-oxygen sensors (from my K8)
-coolant sensors (from my K8)
-throttle position sensor (from my K8)
-IAC (tried two different ones, didn't change anything)
-KL02 VAF (tried two different ones, didn't change anything)
-fuel rails with injectors and regulator (tried two different ones, didn't change anything)
-crank sensor (tried running with it unplugged in case it was faulty, didn't change anything)
-cam sensor (using my 94 disty from the K8 so I know it's good)
-new spark plugs (with correct gap) and plug wires

Since I've ruled out pretty much everything, I thought that maybe my timing was off a tooth or something, since I never checked it when I got the engine. So just now I did a compression test. Here is everything exactly as I did it:
Engine was hot as I just finished driving and began testing right away. I unplugged the fuel pump while idling and let the car die so that there would be no fuel. I then unplugged the distributor so there would be no spark. I then proceeded to remove the spark plugs one at a time, and check the compression on each cylinder as I went. So first there would be 5 spark plugs intact, then 4, and so on... Here are the numbers I got in order from cylinder 1-6: 180, 180, 190, 200, 190, 200. Then I decided to do it again just for more accuracy, but this time all the spark plugs were already out of every cylinder (not sure if that changes anything). So this second time I got 210 across the board on every cylinder! The only things I noticed was on cylinder 1 it stuck at 170 for a few cranks and then jumped up to 210, does this mean I have sticky valves? Also the spark plug from cylinder 2 was quite a lot darker than the rest. Rich?
So what does this mean, that the timing is spot on? And why were the numbers different the second time? I am out of ideas now. The only thing that's left is like the knock sensor, or something is wrong with the ECU itself... Let me know what you guys think. I am truly out of ideas and it's really frustrating because I feel like I've tried absolutely everything. Maybe you guys can think of something that I missed.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Ok, 2 things jumped out at me: You didn't say if you checked the timing. If you didn't, do it. If you did, do it again. I had this problem with my DE, and after MONTHS going crazy about it, I finally figured it was MY fault, as I was doing the timing wrong.
On each camshaft sprocket you will see 2 marks that can be attributed to timing: an arrow cast on one of the spokes, and a yellow dot on the lip. YOU NEED TO USE THE YELLOW DOT. If you use the arrows, it'll run like cr@p. Another thing: On the rear bank sprocket you'll see 2 little (unpainted) dimples on the lip, and 2 extra timing marks on the valve cover. You can use those, instead of the yellow dot, which is very hard to use with the engine on the car.

The second thing is the ECU. You should DEFINITELY try another, unmodified one, if nothing else, just to rule it out.

Good luck!

EDIT: I was just looking at your worklog, and I noticed something. I want to make clear this is pure speculation, as the pictures aren't clear on that, but looks to me like your CAI has a PCV hookup after the VAF. Normally, the PCV hookup goes before the VAF, so that air is also measured. I don't know if that makes a difference really, but it may be worth a try...

[_-Night-Shade-_]

EDIT: I was just looking at your worklog, and I noticed something. I want to make clear this is pure speculation, as the pictures aren't clear on that, but looks to me like your CAI has a PCV hookup after the VAF. Normally, the PCV hookup goes before the VAF, so that air is also measured. I don't know if that makes a difference really, but it may be worth a try...

Actually my PCV hookup goes to my catch can and then to the IM, just like stock. What you're seeing is the hose for the VC breathers and I've got that going into the intake after the VAF, again, just like stock.

I thought if the timing is off a compression test would show it as the numbers would be lower?

[Inodoro Pereyra]

I thought if the timing is off a compression test would show it as the numbers would be lower?

That depends. If your timing is a few degrees off, compression may be lower, but if you made the same mistake I made, and used the arrows as timing marks, the timing on your rear bank will be almost a full 360 degrees off, so compression is bound to be perfect. The only difference is the spark is coming at the end of the exhaust cycle, instead of the compression cycle.

[mx3autozam]

Igor. You said you took the 02 sensors off your k8. Are you sure they were good? also you said you tried other injectors. are they k8 ones or kl ones. kl ones should be blue. Check the timing just to be sure as well.

[_-Night-Shade-_]

Igor. You said you took the 02 sensors off your k8. Are you sure they were good? also you said you tried other injectors. are they k8 ones or kl ones. kl ones should be blue. Check the timing just to be sure as well.

Yes they were good, they were actually originally off my old red MX-3 which passed emissions with flying colours, and then I used them in my current MX-3 with the K8, and now with the KLZE. Both sets of injectors are KL, blue-top. I wouldn't make that n00b mistake haha. There's nothing I can really do about the timing right now as I'd have to take the car off the road for a few days to get to the t-belt with the engine in the car, and I'm sure even then it would be awkward. Worst case scenario is I'll drive it for 3 more months like this before I store it for the winter at which point I'll pull the engine, as I intended to do anyway.

[Pritchett]

I just changed my timing belt yesterday, do yourself a favor and take your power steering line off from your PS pump tube, it'll make a mess but gives you a whole lotta more room on that side of the engine, especially for that 1 bolt in the timing cover case that sits right by it. Do yourself a favor and don't remove that idler wheel between the two cam sprockets..I didn't and everything worked out fine. Also its said that you should move your crank 1 tooth back from the proper mark and it will right itself when the tensioner removes the slack from the other side of the crank. I did this and I guess I had the belt properly tensioned because it didn't move when I let the tensioner go....which means I had to take the tensioner back off...take the belt back off...readjust the crank to the 12 oclock position and put the belt on like I had before(I used vice grips on the front cam to kept it in place both times) compress the tensioner again, reinstall it and pull the pin..Bingo worked like a charm.

Good luck!!

[timpronk]

Perhaps try running a MX3 vaf, as that is the one to run with the ZE ecu. You have a chipped ecu but perhaps its programmed to the ZE ecu specs? Possibly change your fuel filter as well if that has never been changed, although if anything I think a plugged one would make it run leaner.

[_-Night-Shade-_]

Perhaps try running a MX3 vaf, as that is the one to run with the ZE ecu. You have a chipped ecu but perhaps its programmed to the ZE ecu specs? Possibly change your fuel filter as well if that has never been changed, although if anything I think a plugged one would make it run leaner.

Thank you sir but the issue is definitely not related to any of those. I am almost certain that it's my timing. Will update once I figure it out.

[_-Night-Shade-_]

OH MY GOD. This was such a stupid little thing. It was way simpler than I thought, but still kind of tricky. It was my plug wires. However, they had low resistance when cold but when they warmed up they were garbage! My MX-3 runs mint now!!!

[RX8SE3P]

Lol good to see you figured it out and it was something easy (not requiring engine pulling).

[_-Night-Shade-_]

Tell me about it. I made the mistake of not re-using my plug wires and throwing on a set of "high performance" ones I had that I never used before thinking they were good, and I did measure their resistence which was the lowest (but when cold). Never add another variable to the equation until you can account for all the other ones!

[whitete]

hey almost exact same thing with my klze sounds like a subaru , very bubbley and lack of power and very noticable vibrations,

so just the wires > would you think our set of NGK wires are no good, or fuel related?

thanks
Terry

[mikeinaus]

hey almost exact same thing with my klze sounds like a subaru , very bubbley and lack of power and very noticable vibrations,

so just the wires > would you think our set of NGK wires are no good, or fuel related?

thanks
Terry

my old k8 sounded like a subaru when it was only running on 5 cylinders. might be a good idea for you to check compression then if its good replace plugs, plug wires and cap/rotor.

[Daninski]

[quote="_-Night-Shade-_"] I'm using a Probinator'ed DE ECU that's been chipped to my KLZE engine (KL31 Cams, KL02 VAF, Millenia IM).[/quote.

Igor the DE has a straight neck intake and your using the curved neck so things are not as they should be. Should you not be using a different chip and a JE50 VAF. Oxygen sensors are different for the DE as well.