Improving brake performance

MarkMoore · Post by **MarkMoore** » May 10th, 2005, 7:49 am

how can i improve my brake performance? i need advice on what will give significant improvement, and what is just a waste of money... right now i just have the ole' k8 in there, but i want excellent braking power, cuz i feel what i have now isn't good enough... it takes way too long to bring the car to a hault IMO, and especially when i throw the ZE in there... and no, there's nothing wrong w/ what i have right now, i keep an eye on everything....

please elaborate on

-ceramic pads as opposed to the regular semi-metallic
-CD/S rotors
-caliper upgrade if at all possible (i don't know if quality would improve w/o adding more pistons)
-larger rotors if at all possible
-anything else i forgot to mention or don't know about

basically i just want to know what my options are, and hear from people who know about or who have personally had success in this area... BTW, i do have 4 disc brakes (thought my signature might confuse)

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » May 10th, 2005, 10:19 am

Larger rotors would only be available in a big brake kit, which wasn't cheap if I remember right

Stainless/Teflon braided brakelines should help too.

There are mixed opinions on slotted/drolled rotors (personally, I wanted to give them a try)

The setup that is being installed on my car this week is:
-Brembo Cross Drilled/Slotted Rotors
-PBR ULX Ceremic Pads
-Stainless/Teflon Lines
So i'll let you know how they go.

93SOHC · Post by **93SOHC** » May 10th, 2005, 11:11 am

One of the best things about ceramic pads, is if you have aftermarket rims, less brake dust.

Ceramic pads are a harder compound than semi-metalic, or organic pads. They can handle more heat. With a stock setup, they're virtually useless except the first thing I mentioned(brake dust), but if you're gonna go ZE, go for it. In a normal driving situation, they tend to squeak a bit, and don't really give you a great feel in the pedal, but on the track they are great. The hotter you get em, the better they work.

Definately get a set of stainless braided lines. Improved safety and reliability, especially under harsh condidions.

From what I gather, cd/slotted rotors help disopate heat better, keeping them from getting way to hot on the track and over heating. Again, IMO, if your car is stock and under normal conditions, you won't see too much improvement. But with a ZE, and if you're gonna hit the track once in awhile, go for it. I definately reccomend Brembo's

Big brake kits are available, at a huge cost, so unless you're gonna be hitting the track hard, i'd say pass.

As far as a caliper upgrade, these would only come or be genuinely nessecary w/ a big brake kit.

Over all the stock braking system isn't that bad(except the crappy rear drums on the RS), but if you are adding lotsa power, bigger heavy rims, and plan on hitting the track, an upgrade is definately reccomended. Hope this helps

jaydog5678 · Post by **jaydog5678** » May 10th, 2005, 6:53 pm

93SOHC wrote:Over all the stock braking system isn't that bad(except the crappy rear drums on the RS), but if you are adding lotsa power, bigger heavy rims, and plan on hitting the track, an upgrade is definately reccomended. Hope this helps

Hey, I like my crappy drums...

The biggest thing he can do is just swap out for a good set of pads. I'm pleased with my HawkHP pads (about $50). I've had the 2 sets of them so far, one for the track(HP+) and one for heavy duty street (which is on the car now).

Brembos rotors are the shiznit. It would be better to get the rotors from the Miata. They are slightly larger and will still clear the caliper. The Miata rotors are cheaper than the Mx-3 rotors as well, even if they come slotted or whatever you decide to get.

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » May 10th, 2005, 6:58 pm

Jaydog.. if you went with Miata rotors.. wouldnt you need to go with Miata pads and calipers? Forgive my ignorance on this.. I havent gotten into the brake system yet.. but it is on the list of summer projects

Tunes67

mazdubber · Post by **mazdubber** » May 10th, 2005, 9:00 pm

The best improvement you will ever notice is with a good set of front pads on fresh or resurfaced rotors. I have a set of Hawk HPS pads for mixed street/track use. So far they are an incredible difference for street use. I have yet to see what they'll do when I get some serious heat in them. Cross drilled or slotted rotors will not give you any advantage for your uses. Big brakes are overkill. Steel braided brake lines will only give you a better pedal feel. They will not affect stopping distance. And don't forget to thouroughly bleed the brakes.

jaydog5678 · Post by **jaydog5678** » May 10th, 2005, 9:26 pm

Tunes67 wrote:Jaydog.. if you went with Miata rotors.. wouldnt you need to go with Miata pads and calipers? Forgive my ignorance on this.. I havent gotten into the brake system yet.. but it is on the list of summer projects

Tunes67

Nope, no need for Miata calipers or pads - they won't fit anyway. The Miatas calipers are quite different as are the pads. The rotors have the same hat depth, and bolt pattern. The only difference is that they have a slightly larger circumferance, but are still usable on the Mx (Patdiesel is currently using them on his). The best part and point I was trying to make is that they are cheaper than Mx-3 rotors. Untill he told me what rotors he was using (Brembo's slotted), I was shocked myself.

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » May 10th, 2005, 9:43 pm

lol i wrote that FAQ, but didn't even talk about improving the brakes.

i'll fill that part in later. I went off on a tangent about the stock brake system.

Worth reading the "tips & tricks" section though....i mention a few things people TOTALLY overlook on here that can make a hel lof a diff

But yea...resurfacing rotors & getting some good semi-met pads is really the best improvement you can make! Big brake kits won't really help that much, they'll just provide you with longevity before they overheat & slightly shorter stopping distances

PATDIESEL · Post by **PATDIESEL** » May 11th, 2005, 12:05 am

yeah, I got a set of S/CD Brembo Miata rotors for about 200 front and rear on Ebay. They fit perfectly and function just fine. I've had them for about 10k miles now and no probs. I also noticed a good improvement when I did stainless lines. The rotors and pads went on at the same time so I can't be possitive if the rotors helped, but I have 0 brake fade now and used to have a ton. Ps, I use ceramic pads, awsome, I love them and will keep using them.
Gro, was that you that came up with the Miata rotor thing, I learned it so long ago I can't remember who posted it. Anyway if it was thanks. It saved me a ton on the rotors and gave me way more options to choose from. One of the best ideas on parts swapping.

MarkMoore · Post by **MarkMoore** » May 11th, 2005, 12:43 pm

wait, gro said semi-metallic pads are the good way to go, and pat said ceramic are what would be best... i always thought that ceramic was a step up from semi-metallic, because i thought ceramics were the 'plain janes' when it came to brake pads...

gro, were u just saying that semi-metallics are good pads, but ceramics would be better, or do i have a misconception here????

93SOHC · Post by **93SOHC** » May 11th, 2005, 12:48 pm

All depends on the application...race, street, whatever Boht are good though

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » May 11th, 2005, 2:21 pm

i don't agree that ceramics are "better" per-se.

They are generally expensive as hell and can withstand a lot of heat cycling without negative effects on their performance. I'm not sure about their co of friction compared to semi-mets but I know that semi-mets work DAMN well too.

Hawk HPS pads (which are imo the best option for the front brakes on our car) are semi-mets and stop like a bat out of hell. they also wear your rotors down a bit faster.

I'm trying to find some definitive answers on kevlar, semi-met, organic and ceramic, among other kinds of pads (carbon composites and theres another one i think).

I do think that organics simply SUCK. i have them on my car right now and they are horrible pads. Sure they dont' produce hardly any dust, but they don't bite the rotor for crap either.

93SOHC · Post by **93SOHC** » May 11th, 2005, 2:31 pm

The thing that sux about Ceramics is that unless you are consantly getting them hot as hell, they squeek so damn bad! When Ceramics first started to get popular in OEM applications people with brand new Volswagens would come in complaining that they dad a squeek with only about 4000 miles on thier brand new cars. But on the other hand when we started offering them to heavy commuters and light work trucks we had nothing but praise. Personally I perfer semi-met. pads for my application(daily driver, weekend track car eventually, takes a beating and I put on a lotta miles each week) After I get back from the MX-3 meet on the 21st i'll be ordering up some Hawk semi-met pads. Heard nothing but rave reviews.

MarkMoore · Post by **MarkMoore** » May 11th, 2005, 4:22 pm

Gro Harlem wrote:i don't agree that ceramics are "better" per-se.

They are generally expensive as hell and can withstand a lot of heat cycling without negative effects on their performance. I'm not sure about their co of friction compared to semi-mets but I know that semi-mets work DAMN well too.

Hawk HPS pads (which are imo the best option for the front brakes on our car) are semi-mets and stop like a bat out of hell. they also wear your rotors down a bit faster.

I'm trying to find some definitive answers on kevlar, semi-met, organic and ceramic, among other kinds of pads (carbon composites and theres another one i think).

I do think that organics simply SUCK. i have them on my car right now and they are horrible pads. Sure they dont' produce hardly any dust, but they don't bite the rotor for crap either.

let me know your findings gro!!! or you will probably show your findings about the different types of pads in your new FAQ??????????????

mazdubber · Post by **mazdubber** » May 11th, 2005, 7:24 pm

Honestly Mark, Just buy a set of Hawk HPS (HP Plus) and a set of steel braided lines and you won't be disappointed. It'll be the best $150-$200 you can spend upgrading the brakes. Anything else will give you minimal improvements if any. The pads will bring the car to a stop like you won't believe, and the lines will make the pedal nice and stiff.

Bye the way, I'm actually running the Hawk HP Plus in my car right now. It's more of a race worthy pad. I actually went in to order the HPS and saw the HP Plus in the book. I need the higher tourqe and temperature resistance for the track. The HPS will be quieter and more gentle on the rotors.