[GI] Poly bushings: Making a Comeback in Feb 09'!!!

[wytbishop]

OH dude I am sooooo using that.

[Flyer]

UPDATE Sept 11, 08: I got some very encouraging news from one of the vendors I'm working with that leads me to believe that this project will move forward. I have to address some design issues and rethink the lubrication issue, but I am 90% sure now that I can have these made for >$400 for a complete kit. I will continue to update.

Did you mean "<$400?" >_>

[wytbishop]

uhh...yeah...no time for editing when you're sneaking in posts while your boss isn't looking.

My goal is to make a complete kit for $350 + donation + shipping...and not lose my shirt.

[wytbishop]

Updated top post.

Just a progress report. Nothing Earth shattering.

[tehbrookzorz]

GO WYTBISHOP GO!

[wytbishop]

Update at top post

[Whisper]

This seems like good stuff, if it gets made. I've already ordered a set of SuperPro bushings a while ago, which are supposed to be on the way, however, I'm not fully certain about the fitment on some of them. For example I found out about the 40mm to 44mm difference between the models, but it was already too late to change the order. So hopefully if you get your bushings made, I would definitely tap into that for some individual pieces to compensate for any mismatching.

Keep up the good work, man.

[wytbishop]

Update...up top.

[marcdh]

Good work

[turbulence23]

big woohoo man!!

really appriciate the time and effort you put into this!

[wytbishop]

Getting very close now. Just waiting on one last piece of information to nail down all the pricing. Once I have everything figured I will post a detailed explanation of how the bushings will be constructed and how the ordering process is going to go.

[Whisper]

Nice, nice.

[wytbishop]

I'm just waiting for the quote from the polyurethane supplier. At that point I will have everything I need to post the detailed pricing. I had expected to have it by now but they must be quite busy.

The manufacturer of the molds has given me his quote and I won't lie to you...they're expensive. Not to worry though, I have already decided I will go forward for 10 sets minimum. Even if that means I lose a few hundred bucks. I'm confident I'll make it back in the future.

[wytbishop]

Update...at the top.

[wytbishop]

OK everyone. Here it is. I have all the quotes from the various vendors and I have calculated the cost of all the different element of this kit. There are a few things I need to explain so that everything is very clear. If you don't care about all that, just skip to the end for pricing and stuff.

The Bushings

I have modified the design significantly from what you've seen so far. There are a couple of reasons for that. Let me explain.

The polyurethane shrinks as it cures. That means that the inner diameter of the bushing will get smaller and tighter on the center post of the mold as it dries. Now it is possible to make a very expensive mold with retractable features and collapsible center post and all that, but we're talking HUGE $$$. The other option would have been to mold the bushing with no grease groove at all and have the groove machined into the bushing after curing, but again, the machining multiplies the cost of the finished product by about 3 times.

Our only viable option is simple, single cavity molds. So, any surface feature molded into the inner diameter (like a grease groove) must be able to slide off the center post of the mold or it would be damaged. That means it cannot be closed at both ends as I wanted. This poses the problem that if the groove is open the grease could eventually escape. That's the main issue. We want a bushing that will retain a healthy volume of grease for a very long time.

So this is the final design....



The bushings are all 2 part bushings. The grease grooves are straight (which reduces the cost quite a bit) and open to the inside (which makes them easy to unmold). Because they are a 2 piece design the bushings' grease grooves will seal against each other keeping the grease in for ever.

The bushings will be black (I like the juxtaposition of Wytbushings which are black). The supplier of the poly quoted me for 80A durometer. If a lot of 70A bushings are bought it may affect pricing a tiny bit as the curing time is longer, so less bushings can be made in a day. I still intend to give you the choice of 70A, 80A or 90A durometer. If there is a price increase it will be small and I'll absorb it.

The Crush Sleeves

The crush sleeves also impact the cost of the kit. I got a quote to have them cut from stainless steel by the same shop that is making the molds, but it was too expensive. I have lathe at my disposal, so I looked into buying the stainless round bar and cutting them myself, but even at that, it's not cheap. Stainless steel is about 5X the cost of structural 44W carbon steel and would add about $50 to the cost of the kit. Whereas, I can make sleeves out of carbon steel for less than $15 per kit. I think that using plain carbon steel is acceptable. Lubricating them thoroughly on assembly and doing so again every few years will keep them from corroding.

If enough of you want them, I will offer the option of stainless sleeves, but it will be at extra cost.

Hardware

There will be washers supplied for the rear Lateral Links as they are necessary to provide a seating surface between the sub frame and the sleeve. No other hardware is required except that which already exists on the car.

In order to cost out replacements for the factory hardware I went to Mazda and bought most of the required factory fasteners (CHA CHING!!!). As soon as I saw them I realized I would not be able to go to the local Nut and Bolt supply house and pick them up. The long ones that secure the Lateral Links to the sub frame and spindle are special and you'll have to buy them from Mazda or reuse your old ones. The other hardware (Trailing Arm front and rear bolts with washers, LCA front bolt and washer and 3 rear bolts, as well as the big retaining washers for the TTL's) are all common. I will cost them out for you this week and I expect them to be about $15-20 extra. This hardware will not be included in the price of the bushing kit.

Grease

I have identified a good quality polyurethane lubricant which I will supply with the bushings.

It's hard to know how much grease will be required to lube the entire vehicle. Other companies supply a small amount with every bushing in a little baggie, but I see that as messy and tedious. I am working on getting this stuff called Super Lube in 3oz tubes. I will include a tube with each complete kit. If you are only buying partials or you want an extra tube, you can order one. A tube is $6.95, but I'm trying to get a bulk deal so it might be a little less.

PRICING

Here is the deal. I cannot move forward unless at least 10 complete sets are purchased. I will be happy to sell partial sets so long as that caveat is met. A complete kit including every bushing on the car (except sway bars), crush sleeves in carbon steel, washers required for install and plenty o' lube will be $370CDN + shipping (sorry, the paypal fees are significant on this one). At this price I will make exactly $0 profit.

If you want stainless steel crush sleeves, add $50.

As soon as 10 people who wish to buy a complete set have committed a $200 deposit I will place the order for the molds to be made. Once the order is placed to manufacture the molds your deposit will become NON-REFUNDABLE!!!Full payment will obviously be required before any parts are shipped.

If 15 complete sets are ordered, the price will be reduced by $50.

If these order quantities are met, prices for individual bushings will be reduced in kind. Prices for individual bushings are determined based on their cost in relation to the cost of a complete set. There is no particular discount for purchasing a complete kit.

This is still the GI thread. I have not communicated any of this with Jeff. Until that happens I can't do anything. I want your feedback and questions. I want to know what you think about the price. Unfortunately, this is as good as it's going to get. This pricing does not account for a single minute of my time, which I can tell you has and will continue to be substantial. I'm in it for the love of the game so to speak.