Charlie's no budget mid engine build: *Codename:BlakBishop*

[Evo_Spec]

almost looks like an mx3 hatch glass can fit on there *nudge nudge* lol

[ethand]

Umm Evo, I think the idea was for it to be light weight...? So a 500kg rear hatch is probs out of the question

[Evo_Spec]

shhh, mx3 glass so light. so light a fly could carry it!

*i was gonna do a crappy MSpaint picture but that'd be a thread jack so yeah lol*

anyways, i'm really liking how the design looks but i think the mid section on the rear comes down really far, i think it'd look better if it was half way down the tail lights instead of the bottom of them. Just my opinion

[wytbishop]

anyways, i'm really liking how the design looks but i think the mid section on the rear comes down really far, i think it'd look better if it was half way down the tail lights instead of the bottom of them. Just my opinion

I had the very same thought today. I worked it up but never had time to upload it. It does look better.

[wytbishop]

I should have just gotten Evo_Spec to do the sketching for me. I would have been done weeks ago. lol

Here is what I did yesterday. With the hatch concept it definitely cleans up the back end. Good eye Evo.


I'm trying to learn to use a new (to me) CAD tool called Alias. It is a surface modeling software and is very complex to use. The link shows a model made in Alias. I won't probably be able to do that, but something rudimentary should be possible with time.

http://www.car3ddesign.com/pages/Falcon ... es/f1.html

Next step is to sketch the big pieces. I tried going directly to models of the tub and othe big parts, but I think I need to conceptualize them first. It's frustrating because I don't really know how to draw, so I am figuring that out as I go and it takes a long time. Fortunately I have time.

[Evo_Spec]

lol, i would of tried to do it in mspaint and probably fail XD

but yeah that really does look a lot better

[onlytrueromeo]

Charlie, that is absolutely beautiful and reminds me of the much older corvettes. Much improved over the tiny window, and now since it's glass, you can show off the engine!

[jschrauwen]

The sources for rated power for the Z32 is a bit mired due in part to the gentlemens agreement by the big 3 in Japan when they had their big guns out - Z32, RX7 and Supra. Each company artificially deflated their max numbers to get away with extra taxes and the like for exporting purposes.
There are slight HP differences between the Auto and manual TT's but it's negligable and also between ealy and later model Z32's due to the introduction of OBDII. The Z32 was built from 89 to 2000 however they stopped exporting it to North America after 96 but continued in other parts of the world. This was a shame as Nissan introduced some nice seating and body kits to their Z32's. I did run a 99/00 spec front facia for a while until it met up with a 2x10 on it's edge in the middle of the 401 late at night - OUCH!!!
The oem bottom end is strong enough to support ~ 700whp but anything more than that and it could be a crapshoot. Although I've had mine completely rebuilt by AMS in Mississauga, I wouldn't want to push anything higher than 700whp. I'm happy where I'm at in the mid 500whp range on pump gas at 18psi.

SO!!! some decisions have been made and the modeling process begins. The engine will be a VG30DETT. This engine was originally made for the 300ZX Twin Turbo both in Japan and the US from 89-96' and is rated at 280-300hp depending on the source you're reading. By all accounts it is capable of 1000hp on the stock bottom end, but I have no intention of going there. I just want to do 400-500hp comfortably. My first choice would be to mount it to a 94 Maxima SE 5speed because it's cheap and it will be quite compact and allow me to mount the engine almost directly over the rear wheels, but I'm not yet totally convinced that the Maxima box can handle that engine and I still need to prove to myself that it will definitely bolt up. Second choice is a Porsche G20 trans. This is a monster gearbox easily capable of handling whatever power I put through it. It also gives me a couple of options for mounting as it can be inverted. So I can mount it behind the engine with the gearbox inverted or in front of the engine with the gearbox upright. Problem is it's very expensive and forces me to mount the engine either in front of or behind the wheels which is not as ideal.

I will use a Miata donor for the hubs, spindles, steering rack and column. There's lots of cool upgrade options for the Miata brakes and suspension parts so that will simplify things and the miata is a nice handline car so it's a good launching point for the suspension.

So let the fun begin. I'll update as I make progress with the design.

Thanks for all your input.

[wytbishop]

Hey thanks for stopping in. Your input is interesting. I didn't know you were in the Z32 scene. that will be helpful when engine time comes around...some day. lol

I chose the VG30DETT for exactly the reasons you talk about. I want to be able to make 400-500hp without having to worry about the engine at all. Plus the engine's a nice size. 500WHP on pump gas would be perfect. I have found a source for the Audi 01E FWD tranny that will work very well for my application and is half the cost of the Porsche box. I did find out from a source I have some confidence in that the Maxima SE box does not bolt up to the VG. It's for the best anyway. I don't think that box would be reliable with the power that I want to make.

I am starting a 1/8th scale clay model this weekend based on the sketches I have. I have found a local company that will do a 3D scan of the model for a few hundred dollars. I could also have them do a Class A surface model for me but I could never afford it and I'd rather learn how to do that part myself. the best part of a project like this is learning the cool new stuff. I will take lots of pictures of the modeling process.

[Nd4SpdSe]

I did find out from a source I have some confidence in that the Maxima SE box does not bolt up to the VG. It's for the best anyway. I don't think that box would be reliable with the power that I want to make.

The Maxima uses a VG, why wouldn't it bolt up?

[wytbishop]

I was told that the VG30DE and the TT use a different block casting.

EDIT: The guy on the NICO forum who told me this also gave me a quick lesson on how an adapter plate works.

The maxi trans. Will not bolt right up,but there is hope all you need is a adapter plate,about a1/2 inch will do.drill and tap holes to match the maxi trans,then do the same for the vg30dett side of the adapter, make sure u countersink the bolts to the maxi trans then bolt it all up,there are more steps to this, but learning is fun part.have fun.


P.s. I ment to say 1/2 inch steel plate :bigthumb:

It's a moot point though. The Maxima trans doesn't inspire confidence in me with anything more than 350whp. The Audi trans is not bulletproof, but should hold 450-500 if I don't abuse it.

[Nd4SpdSe]

I was going to say, why not build a Maxima VG30 using DETT parts, but if the trans won't do what you want to, than there's no point really. I wonder you'll net good or better power (more low-end?) using a VG33 or a VG34-Hybrid. I was watching a video of a guy that put a VG33 from a Frontier (regular non-supercharged) into a 300zx and is running 24.7lbs of boost on it, stock motor, i couldn't believe it, just watched it yesterday, here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD3eu00xCec

Of course I'm partial to this build because of your motor, kinda have some research going on in that dept. Recently been looking at using VG30 cams in my truck (230* vs 248*) for a budget upgrade. You can get nice 262* cams too aftermarket. My cousin has experience with building race and drift cars, so i'm really getting good info from him and he's almost as excited and inspired to work on my truck as I am, heh. He's big into harmonics and consistancy for boost, especially with a Supercharger because of the heat. He was telling me how he gained 50hp just in redesigning the fuelling system on a 400+hp B16, crazy man, I'm going to really enjoy being up here.

[wytbishop]

Yeah I had started to get into the engine forums on NICO but it was starting to get really heavy and I'm nowhere near the point where I need to be putting a lot of thought into how I'm going to build the engine. When the time comes I will look into all of that. My guess right now is, that as long as I can get 450-500whp with the VG30 I will keep it as simple as possible.

I'm going to have enough work on my hands adapting it to the Audi gearbox and getting the starter, clutch and shifter to work.

[wytbishop]

I started the clay model this weekend. As usual I never take enough pictures. I get started working on something and I just forget. Here it is in a nutshell.

I decided that I wanted a scale model as it would be the best way to get the proportions and dimensions completely nailed down as well as having the model scanned is the easiest way to get a 3D CAD package of the car's body. You need to know the basic dimensions of the finished car before you start. Wheelbase, overall length and width, height. That's why I spent so much time on the sketches. Even though they aren't very professional looking I was able to define a lot of stuff by doing that. Now standard model sizes are 1/8, 1/10. Sometimes professional studios do 1/5 and I've even seen a couple of 1/3 models in my study of the process but it would take a huge amount of clay. I wanted to do 1/8 but I also wanted a realistic looking wheel to complete the model and the only one I could find that I liked was a bit too big...so I had to scale up to match the size of the wheels I found and would up with exactly 1/7th scale size.

You have to make a foam core which is smaller in every dimension, but only roughly the shape the finished model. It's actually pretty tricky to do because you have to sort of visualize where things are going to be. So I started with (1) $8 package of standard expanded styrofoam insulation in 48 x 24 x 3/4" sheets and a bottle of Lepage contact cement. Just cut the sheets down to rough size and glue them together with the contact cement. I made round inserts to help shape the wheel openings. They are not actually attached to the main foam core. I will remove them after I get the wheel arches shaped and finish the inside radius last.

I forget to take a picture of the foam core but you can see the wheel inserts and I took a picture with the actual model wheels so you can get an idea how it will look. This is only the first layer of clay...about 10lbs. I think it will take about another 10lbs.







You also need a very understanding and supportive wife who will let you take over the kitchen table indefinitely.

[tumble]

Interesting. Thanks.