FWD MX3s are great

mitmaks · Post by **mitmaks** » December 17th, 2006, 4:40 pm

MX-3.com wrote:
atlantamx3 wrote:Jeff is certainly a lot more lenient than I am. If you came onto MY forum, I would have banned you long ago just because you like to start trouble.

You are a troll.

I bet you dont even OWN an MX-3!

You probably own a Mustang.

atlantamx3, I tend to think that you are in the wrong on this one. I have no problem with what RedEgg has posted, and from what I have seen he is simply trying to prove on a FWD forum that FWD are better IN HIS OPINION. It's the others MitMaks included that I see as pushing too many buttons and stirring up trouble.

Im stirring up trouble? You better re-read the thread. Im not the one that's pushing my opinion (even though its pointless) and started another thread just to bs about it. Numerous members said that guy is wrong and there's many more better cars than MX-3 (RWD) and guy still doesn't get it.

mitmaks · Post by **mitmaks** » December 17th, 2006, 4:46 pm

Red Egg wrote:Most front-wheel drive cars use transversely-mounted engines where the crankshaft is oriented side-to-side relative to the wheels of the vehicle.

Transversely-mounted engines also allow for a compact engine that can fit into small engine bays. Such engines that fit into the MX3's tiny engine bay are the amazing K8 V6 engine, the 168 hp KLDE, and 199 hp KLZE. This would not be possible in a RWD MX3 because such RWDs need engines with a front-to-back longitudinal arrangement (they are NOT transversely mounted).

FWD transversely-mounted engines increase passenger safety by increasing crumple zones while also providing a more roomy cabin . "Because the transversely-mounted engine does not require a bevel gear to change the direction of the final drive, coast-down losses are reduced by approximately 3% of flywheel power and hence overall efficiency is higher with a FWD design." (see answers.com).

RWD cars have roomy compartments. RWD cars have driveshaft and rear end which stiffens body in case of rear end accident (driveshaft/rear end will absorb damage from rear end collision force that would actually go into passenger compartment (in FWD cars) and possibly killing people)).

There are better engines than k8, klde, klze. If there was RWD mx-3, possibilities are unlimited, swap in small block, swap in rotary, etc. Choice is yours.

mitmaks · Post by **mitmaks** » December 17th, 2006, 4:51 pm

Red Egg wrote:
atlantamx3 wrote:You are a troll.
Atlantamx3, who are you referring to: mitmaks and his 1995 Ford Mustang or me? Whoever you are referring to, you should not call any members of this Forum a "troll" or threaten to ban them for having a different opinion. Actually, Atlantamx3, you should be banned for calling mitmaks and me Trolls; unless you apologize.

BTW, I bought my MX3 GS brand new from the dealership in December 1991. I still own it and it's in great shape. Here is a photo:

Red Egg, re-read that post. He doesn't call me and my Cobra a troll. It's the other guy, can you figure it out or you need help with it

What are mods to your GS anyways? What makes it a superior driving machine?

mitmaks · Post by **mitmaks** » December 17th, 2006, 5:45 pm

Red Egg wrote:Which car performs best in the world in all driving conditions? Why Audi, of course! That being the case, none of Audi's performance cars have RWD. Here is why in a quote from Audi's website regarding the subject:

Front-wheel drive “pulls” the vehicle. For this reason a front-wheel-drive car is in principle more controllable and tracks better than conventional rear-wheel drive. On slippery roads in particular, the front-wheel-drive car has an advantage because the weight of the engine is over the driven wheels, thereby increasing traction. Today almost 80 percent of the world’s passenger cars have front-wheel drive. Audi’s models have either front-wheel drive or quattro® permanent all-wheel drive. (from audi.com)
See for yourself: Audi.com link:
http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en2/tools/ ... drive.html

some reading for you:
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/ ... _612.shtml

Conclusion: In my not-so humble opinion, Audi shouldn’t waste its energy defending FWD. RWD is something that will help it achieve its marketing goals

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » December 17th, 2006, 5:47 pm

On this Forum, we all drive FWD Rice Burners, especially Tunes67 & Nd4SpdSe, so why all the FWD hate?

First off.. at no point did I or Nd4SpdSE or any other forum member ever say we hated FWD cars. And the only time you "make it clear" that you are talking about general car ownership is when it suits you to do so.

Do NOT put words in my mouth. I own 2 MX-3's and one Mazda B2000 and when I can afford it.. I will own a 3rd Gen RX-7 as well. This means I will own 2 FWD vehicles and 2 RWD vehicles as well. And eventually I will build / restore a 1967 Chev Nova. So do not presume to know what my opinions are.. you may not use my responses to shore up your arguments or behavior. I tend to agree with Atlanta's opinion and its only from Jeff's input that I am keeping this response tactful and civil. Maybe you should go back and reread what has been said by myself and other members in both threads. My opinion of you has not changed in the slightest, but I will not reiterrate it here in this thread for the forums sake. Though there is a term for people that reject reality and create their own version of it. I'm sure you know what the term is.

Tunes67

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 17th, 2006, 5:53 pm

Red Egg wrote:Atlantamx3, who are you referring to: mitmaks and his 1995 Ford Mustang or me? Whoever you are referring to, you should not call any members of this Forum a "troll" or threaten to ban them for having a different opinion. Actually, Atlantamx3, you should be banned for calling mitmaks and me Trolls; unless you apologize.

Mitmaks,

I was asking Atlantamx3 to apologize because I thought he was calling us both Trolls. I realize now he was calling just me a troll and I don't think he is going to apologize any time soon. He still wants to ban me from the MX3.com forum and he will probably do it if he gets the chance.

I hope you have no hard feelings towards me. I just enjoy this debate but it got out of hand. I hope you continue this discussion because I get the feeling that I am going to be shunned on this thread.

mitmaks · Post by **mitmaks** » December 17th, 2006, 5:56 pm

Red Egg wrote:My favourite quote is the conclusion of the "Popular Mechanics" article entitled "Comparison Test: Front-Wheel Drive vs Rear-Wheel Drive". In the article, FWD and RWD cars with 4, 6, & 8 cylinders are compared. These are controlled scientific tests done by educated professionals, and not the ramblings of a guy named Neofreak posting "FWD vs RWD" from his SRO Blog. Who is this Neofreak guy anyway? Doesn't he work the late shift at Pep Boys?

Popular Mechanics Conclusion
ALL SAID AND DONE
Neither front-wheel drive nor rear-wheel drive is really better than the other. Today's sophisticated traction and stability control systems are so good they can mask or enhance the true driving dynamics of a vehicle. That said, through most of this test we found the effectiveness of these systems had more to do with a car's performance than which wheels were actually doing the driving. Popular Mechanics (September, 2004 issue) .

"Neither front-wheel drive nor rear-wheel drive is really better than the other." Translation: Is RWD a waste of money, horsepower, and fuel efficiency?

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/020619.htm

"Independent rear suspension, used on many current RWD cars allows the engineers to position the body closer to the differential and driveshaft, so interior room has improved.

Traction has always been a problem with RWD vehicles, because of the lower rear vehicle weight over the drive wheels, but modern electronics has changed that. Traction control and vehicle stability systems enable RWD cars to rival FWD vehicles on slippery surfaces. Improved tire designs have also helped.

Even with the decrease in passenger compartment room and increased mechanical complexity, I am still a rear wheel drive fan. I guess I just like the feel of the handling when pushed into corners. Other very good drivers I know would disagree with me."

mitmaks · Post by **mitmaks** » December 17th, 2006, 5:59 pm

Another good article
http://forzamotorsport.net/121306-1.htm

mitmaks · Post by **mitmaks** » December 17th, 2006, 6:01 pm

Red Egg wrote:
Red Egg wrote:Atlantamx3, who are you referring to: mitmaks and his 1995 Ford Mustang or me? Whoever you are referring to, you should not call any members of this Forum a "troll" or threaten to ban them for having a different opinion. Actually, Atlantamx3, you should be banned for calling mitmaks and me Trolls; unless you apologize.
Mitmaks,

I was asking Atlantamx3 to apologize because I thought he was calling us both Trolls. I realize now he was calling just me a troll and I don't think he is going to apologize any time soon. He still wants to ban me from the MX3.com forum and he will probably do it if he gets the chance.

I hope you have no hard feelings towards me. I just enjoy this debate but it got out of hand. I hope you continue this discussion because I get the feeling that I am going to be shunned on this thread.

I do not have hard feelings towards you. I do get offended thogh when you are putting down my Cobra. You should first find out what has been done to it before you put it down. I guarantee you that is much better car than my mx-3 or your mx-3 together. You must just realize that we are trying to teach you advantages of RWD but you're still stubborn. That's when some members get annoyed by your posts.

atlantamx3 · Post by **atlantamx3** » December 17th, 2006, 6:39 pm

mitmaks wrote:
MX-3.com wrote:
atlantamx3 wrote:Jeff is certainly a lot more lenient than I am. If you came onto MY forum, I would have banned you long ago just because you like to start trouble.

You are a troll.

I bet you dont even OWN an MX-3!

You probably own a Mustang.

atlantamx3, I tend to think that you are in the wrong on this one. I have no problem with what RedEgg has posted, and from what I have seen he is simply trying to prove on a FWD forum that FWD are better IN HIS OPINION. It's the others MitMaks included that I see as pushing too many buttons and stirring up trouble.
Im stirring up trouble? You better re-read the thread. Im not the one that's pushing my opinion (even though its pointless) and started another thread just to bs about it. Numerous members said that guy is wrong and there's many more better cars than MX-3 (RWD) and guy still doesn't get it.

red egg.

not you mitmaks.

My problem is that he just keeps going on and beating a dead horse and will not stop. His opinion has been made known which he thinks is better and no one will convince him otherwise.

Trolls know this tactic and know that people are going to try to keep arguing with them, and keep stirring the pot like he is doing. That is why I called him a troll and that is why I would not allow him on my forum @ atlantamx3.com.

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 17th, 2006, 6:46 pm

Tunes67 wrote: I own 2 MX-3's and one Mazda B2000 and when I can afford it.. I will own a 3rd Gen RX-7 as well. This means I will own 2 FWD vehicles and 2 RWD vehicles as well. And eventually I will build / restore a 1967 Chev Nova.

I tend to agree with Atlanta's opinion and its only from Jeff's input that I am keeping this response tactful and civil.

How nice of you to keep your response tactful and civil. We all appreciate that.

BTW, why do you need so many cars? One for a rainy day, one for a dry one, one for snowy, and another to match your latest outfit. Don't get angry, just joking!

Atlanta has it all wrong! I should not be banned because I have done nothing wrong; but can you say the same thing?

Jeff is the only one who seems to not want to squash my right to defend the benefits of FWD. As I've said many times before, if you don't like this thread or my ideas, please save yourself the aggravation and read and post to some of the hundreds of other ones.

atlantamx3 · Post by **atlantamx3** » December 17th, 2006, 6:47 pm

Red Egg wrote:
Red Egg wrote:Atlantamx3, who are you referring to: mitmaks and his 1995 Ford Mustang or me? Whoever you are referring to, you should not call any members of this Forum a "troll" or threaten to ban them for having a different opinion. Actually, Atlantamx3, you should be banned for calling mitmaks and me Trolls; unless you apologize.
Mitmaks,

I was asking Atlantamx3 to apologize because I thought he was calling us both Trolls. I realize now he was calling just me a troll and I don't think he is going to apologize any time soon. He still wants to ban me from the MX3.com forum and he will probably do it if he gets the chance.

I hope you have no hard feelings towards me. I just enjoy this debate but it got out of hand. I hope you continue this discussion because I get the feeling that I am going to be shunned on this thread.

Nope, not going to apologize until I see some better behavior from you. This is not my forum and I have no power to ban you or anything otherwise. I was stating my OPINION- which is the same thing you are doing.

I have no hard feeling towards you. I would just prefer (as everyone else would) that you just stop posting that FWD is the thing ever in every post you make, and start being an effective member of the community rather than one that inflames the rest of us over something that does not matter over and over and over and over.

We get your point.

Enough already.

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 17th, 2006, 7:18 pm

atlantamx3 wrote: My problem is that he just keeps going on and beating a dead horse and will not stop. His opinion has been made known which he thinks is better and no one will convince him otherwise.

Trolls know this tactic and know that people are going to try to keep arguing with them, and keep stirring the pot like he is doing. That is why I called him a troll and that is why I would not allow him on my forum @ atlantamx3.com.

If you do not apologize, you risk getting banned from this Forum for calling me a troll and trying to humiliate me with your pseudo-authority . This isn't Georgia, son.

I've introduced a number of new ideas on this thread. I am trying to learn more about the subject and improve my argument. My ideas from Audi, Popular Mechanics, mid-engine-front wheel drive layout, & e-brake techniques are all things I learned because of this thread. The best part of all was finding the Tiff Needell driving technique videos! For example, do you know how to do the "Scandinavian Flick" driving technique? If not, review this thread and find out.

Also, why are you calling me a Troll? I started this thread because I find the discussion interesting. A certain other member of this Forum posted 24 times on this thread! A double standard, perhaps? It seems that there is a group that is ganging up on me in these discussions so I need to respond as not to look like I don't know. I try to keep my answers interesting and informative.

Oh, well, why should I waste my time?; I bet you are part of that anti-fwd group. I don't know why I bother? Again, don't read or post here if you don't like the free-speech discussion. This isn't the old Soviet Union; I hope!

atlantamx3 · Post by **atlantamx3** » December 17th, 2006, 7:54 pm

See?

Its not going to stop.

mr1in6billion · Post by **mr1in6billion** » December 17th, 2006, 8:40 pm

"Neither front-wheel drive nor rear-wheel drive is really better than the other." Translation: Is RWD a waste of money, horsepower, and fuel efficiency?

See? There you pulling things out of nothing.

"Rwd is a waste of money"
Except that cars are ridiculusly expensive to begin with, rwd isn't that much more expensive to manufacture, the price of adding a drive shaft ends up being a drop in the bucket. The reason rwd cars tend to be more expensive is because they are sportier.

"waste of horsepower"
a 5% added loss is practicaly nothing. And with todays advances in technology (stronger lighter driveshafts) that difference will get even smaller.

"fuel efficiency"
Throw in a shorter gearbox, that will make up for the loss in hp and the efficiency. problem solved.

RedEgg wrote:Atlanta has it all wrong! I should not be banned because I have done nothing wrong; but can you say the same thing?

This just makes me laugh. Do you not see the "supporting member" under his name? Did you not realize he is one of first members? Have you not read any of his highly informative 2400 posts? You have a lot of nerve to think you have more right to be here than him.

FWD MX3s are great

Which car would you prefer to own?