Help SuperK Hone, Please!

[PATDIESEL]

I would at least suggest that you price having a shop do it. There are a ton of really good engine shops around here that would be less than 200 IIRC for a 6 cyl that does not need hours of work. If you just want the XP, then you've got some well thought answers here. On another note though. I've heard a lot lately that breaking an engine in hat thas had a cylinder hone has changed. It used to be said to take it easy on the motor and do not stress it... Now they (race engine shops) are saying to run it hard. I would suggest looking into it and not just taking what I say as gospel, but it had something to do with the way driving easy lets the hone marks eat the piston rings and driving hard actually sets the rings more snugly and with less material loss = less blow-by later.
GL and remember I am here jobless if you need anything lol

[Evo_Spec]

I've heard a lot lately that breaking an engine in hat thas had a cylinder hone has changed. It used to be said to take it easy on the motor and do not stress it... Now they (race engine shops) are saying to run it hard. I would suggest looking into it and not just taking what I say as gospel, but it had something to do with the way driving easy lets the hone marks eat the piston rings and driving hard actually sets the rings more snugly and with less material loss = less blow-by later.
GL and remember I am here jobless if you need anything lol

Let me grab my Dsport magazine with the article.
"The quality of today's piston rings represent a massive jump in technology. The materials are better, the manufacturing processes are better and the coatings on the rings are better. At the same time the technology used to hone cylinders by the better machine shops provides a near "broken-in" finish (plateau finish) for the rings which also accelerates the break-in process.

If your interested you can try to find a copy or find a friend who has Dsport issue #105, it's all about engine building and comes with a blueprint book for engine rebuilding.

[Josh]

I strongly suggest not to wear in a motor like that... The rings are not the issue it is the bearings. If you wear it in FAST you have a greater chance of spinning one of those bad boys right out of the gate. MOST race engines are warn in at idle 20 minutes at 2000-2500 RMP. This is how the shop that designed my cams suggested that I wear in the engine and the cams, I have done this to the last 3 motors I have built with 0 issues.

But even then when driving the car I would not stomp on it too much until you have a few hundred miles on it. My ZX10 recommended 500 miles before you took it over like 5K. Same with a new WRX or EVO, I did the same with my last BP. The theory to break in an engine like that came from racing in the 60's where there tolerances were not nearly as tight as modern engines. I will always break in an engine slow and steady to insure longevity.

[wytbishop]

There is a growing consensus on the "hard" break-in method. Josh, with respect I disagree on the bearings. If the bearings are properly installed there is no greater concern with spinning one in the first ten minutes than there would be a month down the road. Nothin happens in that first 500 miles to "seat" the bearings as far as I have ever known.

I'm not saying I would necessarily do this, because honestly 20 years of doing it the slow and careful way has it pretty deeply engrained in my mind but if I were going to, I would really lather on the assembly lube, run it hard for 10 minutes, change the oil and filter and then do it again and change the oil and filter again.

I have never seen an article where someone did both methods side by side on 2 new engines and then inspected the parts right after break in. I would be very interested to read about that.

[Josh]

I would like to see something done along those lines as well. It is something that I have head from many sources for many years and would like to see hard facts. I do know that with a turbo motor you do need to allow the turbo bearings to seat in thus the 500 mile "recommendation" from the manufacture. Even my ZX10, they would not warentee the bike if you did not follow proper breakin procedures. But I have seen many newly rebuilt engines spin bearings, it happens more often than one would think. With the newly resurfaced areas it gives them more bite, so if you don't allow them that proper seat and breakin they can spin. But I guess that could be improper installation.

[wytbishop]

The only bearing that ever spun on me was on a honda accord that had a failed oil pump. Ran without circulation for about 10 minutes. When I tore the engine down all the babbit material was gone and 3 of 4 mains were spun. Block was totally destroyed. The main journals were so hogged out they would have had to be spray welded and remachined.

If you prime the engine before start up and it is very well lubed on assembly I think running it at high rpm isn't intrinsically dangerous. The big problem is expansion. On a new engine everything is just a little tighter. The first time you run it if anything is just a tad too tight you run the risk of something expanding quickly and seizing. You would have to be really right on with all your critical clearances.

[mikeinaus]

my theory on spinning the bearings is: no matter how flat or smooth something is, its actually very coarse if you look close enough. journals and bearings are the same way. even brand new with perfect tolerances there are many microscopic peaks and valleys all over the mating surfaces. it makes sense to run them highly lubricated and relatively slowly for the first bit to have these surfaces mate to each other and smooth out. it makes sense that if you push them too hard at first some of these "peaks" can grab and spin the bearings. however with today's manufacturing processes and additives/lubricants it makes sense that break in periods can be reduced and old methods may not be "ideal" any more. just because something worked before doesnt mean it works today. i also agree it would be interesting to do a hard break in vs soft break in with tear down to compare after.

personally id go with both methods. let it run slow for a while (300miles or so) to initially break it in, then hammer the s--- out of it to finish it off. that being said i dont know much about what im talking about. im just learning about engine internals and have relatively no experience, just my 2 cents

[RX8SE3P]

When I rebuilt my engine, I drive normally, if not a bit conservatively for the first 1000kms. I changed the oil after 300kms too. Not straight away. You shouldn't have THAT many metal shavings from running in your engine. I had none that I could physically see.

My engine has been going good, it's done about 13-14,000 kms and compression is 210 on all cylinders. Doesn't burn any oil.

Slow break in, hard break in blah blah it's all wank factor if you ask me. Engines are designed to last a tremendous amount of kms to say the least. Does anyone really think they can make that much of a difference by giving an extra flogging to start with? I'd just go the safe route and drive normally, not like a granny shifting no higher than 2000 rpms, not like a madman who never shifts below 5000rpms, just normally and you'll be fine.

Just to add, I agree with wytbishop on using a generous amount of assembly lube. Making sure everything is lubed properly is the key. Just using oil is not the best in my opinion, assembly lube is designed for building engines and it won't run off parts and leave them dry.

[Josh]

What he said^

Every motor build I have ever done, always run the cheapest oil through it (like NAPA brand - which is Valvoline) and changed oil and filter out at 100 miles 500 miles and 1000 miles and run a nicer oil, then if you want to go big a nice synthetic after 3K miles. It ensures that if there are metal shavings in there they are no longer. And when you have a new motor breaking in there will be, to some extent.

Assembly lube, oil, white Lithium grease doesn't matter really, they all get the job done if used properly. Just using oil is fine if you are planning on running the motor right after the rebuild. You just don't want it to sit around for a couple weeks or months. I feel the same with assembly lube. Just have to make sure your outer bearing surfaces are dry and the inner surfaces are nicely lubed, you want them to spin like a greased pig. The thing that I do see a lot is people OVER lubing bearings, all you need is a very thin light coat of whatever product you are using except oil you need to be a little more generous than that.

Recently I saw someone who used white lithium and used way way too much. You only want to use as small dab on your finger and glide a nice even coat on, you should not be able to see globs of white it should be transparent. The last thing you want in your oil ports, filter, pump ... is globs of grease.

Everyone has there own ways and methods that they have learned or been taught. I learned from my father and grandfather. My grandfather built thousands of engines from the 50's - the 90's, built stock car motors back in the 60's - 70's. All I can say is I have yet to have a failed engine after any engine that I have personally rebuilt, and I have built about 15 or so motors from scratch and several partial rebuilds. It doesn't seem like a lot but most of them were my own and I drove the piss out of them

[Daninski]

Man what I wouldn't give for a family back ground like you have Josh. My Dad did change his plugs once.