Dead MX-3

IanL · Post by **IanL** » June 28th, 2004, 3:34 pm

Originally posted by hgallegos915:
Oh, my bad..he sais the finger does mopve when starting..then i guess that discards the snapped belt..how about a belt that jumped a thread?

Then you would still get sparks, albeit not at the right time.

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 28th, 2004, 4:20 pm

Fu... I've performed all the tests, there is no brakes, shorts in the harness. Ignitor, Ignition module, coil, Hall sensors everything is OK.
Only one more issue has left, why the hell ECU is giving 0.25V on the 1G, i found the information that this one should be at least 0.7V
is this is true ?

Does someone knows the amplitude and frequency of the square wave which driving the ignitor ?

<small>[ June 28, 2004, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Mariusz ]</small>

IanL · Post by **IanL** » June 28th, 2004, 4:52 pm

Originally posted by Mariusz:
Only one more issue has left, why the hell ECU is giving 0.25V on the 1G, i found the information that this one should be at least 0.7V
is this is true ?

Does someone knows the amplitude and frequency of the square wave which driving the ignitor ?

Is that 0.25V engine stopped, or cranking?

The manual says the ECU should give 0V on 1G when ignition is on (with engine stopped, I assume), and 0.6V with car idling, using the Mazda monitor; it looks like it is an analogue meter.

The manual then says that if you always get 0V with the engine idling, there's a short in the wiring, but that's silly, because if there were a short, there would be no spark, and the engine could not be idling. Perhaps they mean cranking.

It would be good if you could borrow another ECU to try.

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 28th, 2004, 5:33 pm

Latest values, all connectors were connected to their destinations so the circuit was live:

3 pin connector:

A - idle 12V when trying to start 9.5V

6 pin connector

C - idle NE1 0V trying to start: increasing to 2.5V
D - idle CID 5V trying to start: decreasing to 0 and increasing to 5V.
F - idle ICM 0V trying to start: increasing to 5V

so these values looks good, but still no spark noticed.

The other thing is , that when I'm trying to start even the clock in the dashboard switch him self off and all lights become darker.

papa roached · Post by **papa roached** » June 28th, 2004, 5:38 pm

Originally posted by hgallegos915:
Hmm, im suprised that know one has told him that the most possible thing is that his timing belt snapped. Therefore when the starter just spins..its turning just the pistons. If it was the belt..then your valves are bent by now since u started it alot of times. Thats why ecu doesnt register codes. Not familiar with the k8...but im guessing that would be it if it has a timing be;t or chain?

arent the K series motors non-interference?

IanL · Post by **IanL** » June 28th, 2004, 5:46 pm

Originally posted by Mariusz:

....so these values looks good, but still no spark noticed.

The other thing is , that when I'm trying to start even the clock in the dashboard switch him self off and all lights become darker.

The lights becoming darker is normal when trying to start, the starter motor takes a very high current, and the battery voltage drops due to the battery internal resistance.

When you tested the distributor in the lab, did you have the rotor in it, and the cap on? It may be that one of those has poor insulation. allowing the HT voltage to leak to earth. It needs a high voltage insulation tester like a "megger" to check that.

TsiMiata · Post by **TsiMiata** » June 28th, 2004, 7:09 pm

Originally posted by papa roached:

Originally posted by hgallegos915:
Hmm, im suprised that know one has told him that the most possible thing is that his timing belt snapped. Therefore when the starter just spins..its turning just the pistons. If it was the belt..then your valves are bent by now since u started it alot of times. Thats why ecu doesnt register codes. Not familiar with the k8...but im guessing that would be it if it has a timing be;t or chain?
arent the K series motors non-interference?

All K series engine are non-interference. So no bent valves here.

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 29th, 2004, 2:07 am

I've tried to obtain spark without the cap on the distributor. I've connected the "fat" cable directly to the coil output and the other end close to the ground "3-4mm" there was no spark at all even without the cap and the rotor.
Is there any possibility that the auto alarm is causing this ? Maybe it is somehow wired with ECU, i don't have any diagram of this. But on distributor connectors everything looks OK.

IanL · Post by **IanL** » June 29th, 2004, 4:07 am

Originally posted by Mariusz:
....Is there any possibility that the auto alarm is causing this ? Maybe it is somehow wired with ECU, i don't have any diagram of this.

I don't know about the immobiliser - it's not on the American models, I think, so its not in the manuals. Usually, immobilisers work on the fuel pump and starter supplies, not the ignition.

I suggest getting something like a scope on the coil primary to see if there really is a squarewave coming from the ECU. Either that, or borrow another ECU to try.

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 29th, 2004, 4:46 am

I've scope, I borrowed it today. I will check NE1 G and ICM signals. The ground pins on the 6 pin distrbutor connector should be ground all the time ? or only when the key is in the ON position ?

IanL · Post by **IanL** » June 29th, 2004, 5:19 am

Originally posted by Mariusz:
The ground pins on the 6 pin distrbutor connector should be ground all the time ? or only when the key is in the ON position ?

All the time - they are for the three grounded-emitter NPNs. I suggest you check them through to the battery negative with an ohmmeter.

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 29th, 2004, 6:24 am

The engine knows that i want to replace him

And all this is sabotage. Probably i will swap a KL-ZE instead of KJ there is lot of problems with spare parts for KJ in Poland.

Latest updates: 6pin terminal A ground OK terminal E ground OK.

<small>[ June 29, 2004, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Mariusz ]</small>

IanL · Post by **IanL** » June 29th, 2004, 8:46 am

Originally posted by Mariusz:
The engine knows that i want to replace him
And all this is sabotage. Probably i will swap a KL-ZE instead of KJ there is lot of problems with spare parts for KJ in Poland.

You know, I had the same thought!

Don't forget that KLZE has a different distributor, with separate coil, and the coil is not usually supplied with the engine. Most swappers put their K8 distributor on the KLZE. But maybe your experts can fit a suitable coil.

IanL · Post by **IanL** » June 29th, 2004, 8:58 am

The old-style distributors always had an interference suppression capacitor clamped to the body, which was often the point of failure. On the K8 distributor, it is shown as built-in, and it sits between the 3pin A (which is the junction of Primary and Secondary coils) and ground. That could be leaky? I know you had it working well in the lab, but maybe the ground for that capacitor was not connected in the lab setup?

mmx01 · Post by **mmx01** » June 29th, 2004, 9:22 am

Correct, there is a a small box connected to the body of the distributor and on the other end trough a thin cable to the A 3pin. There is no short trough it, but also the resistance of it is inifinity. What capacity should it have ?

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