Help SuperK Hone, Please!

[SuperK]

that'd be great, I'd like that, too! Oh man, you guys are amazing. I feel confident I will do a good job with all of your help.

I had some "calibration" issues with some off-brand torque wrenches, should i be wary of "harbor freight" micrometers? Or should I invest on a decent brand... like craftsman or ____? (insert quality brand there)

[Inodoro Pereyra]

I had some "calibration" issues with some off-brand torque wrenches, should i be wary of "harbor freight" micrometers? Or should I invest on a decent brand... like craftsman or ____? (insert quality brand there)

I've used HF calipers and mikes for years without a problem, and checked the calipers against Mitutoyo calipers repeatedly. I would not waste my money on a high end set of either.

BTW, Craftsman is not "decent", by any means.

[mikeinaus]

there wasnt as much about honing as i thought. its more about technique then what types... if theres anything else you want me to lookup feel free to ask. its a 1st year apprentice book so it doesnt go into that much detail about engine internals but its pretty in debth in other subjects...

[Daninski]

I have to say I think wyt just about said it all. Hone it as required and if possible make a few short videos and take a few pics when your done and let us know how it went. Measuring the cylinders walls is definitely important, my walls were shaped like a coke bottle.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Dan: I think we're talking about 2 different things here:

Honing (as I understand it, and have done it many times)is the act of producing a set of criss crossed scratches on the surface of the cylinder walls, with the purpose of allowing the oil to "seep in" into them, and therefore optimize the lubrication of the piston ring/cylinder wall contact patch. Honing should ALWAYS be performed AFTER MAKING SURE THE CYLINDER IS PERFECTLY ROUND (to within specs), AND ITS WALLS PERFECTLY STRAIGHT.

BORING is the act of making the cylinder perfectly round (within specs) and its walls perfectly straight.

Boring should always be done by a machine shop.
Some people people will tell you it can be done manually. Maybe. There are many things that can be done manually, and will work initially. But "work initially" doesn't mean the job was done right.
About 17 years ago (give or take) I rectified a scooter's piston ring with a file, and the scooter worked great, to the point that a couple of days later I saw the owner making little wheelies with it. Of course, I moved a few weeks later, so I don't know how long that engine survived my "work".

Honing can be done by hand, and it's not difficult at all to do.

Finally, K: try to keep your children away from trees...

[mikeinaus]

Dan: I think we're talking about 2 different things here:

Honing (as I understand it, and have done it many times)is the act of producing a set of criss crossed scratches on the surface of the cylinder walls, with the purpose of allowing the oil to "seep in" into them, and therefore optimize the lubrication of the piston ring/cylinder wall contact patch. Honing should ALWAYS be performed AFTER MAKING SURE THE CYLINDER IS PERFECTLY ROUND (to within specs), AND ITS WALLS PERFECTLY STRAIGHT.

BORING is the act of making the cylinder perfectly round (within specs) and its walls perfectly straight.

Boring should always be done by a machine shop.

your half right. boring is the first step in making the cylinder round, straight and close to the final diameter. while honing is used to scuff the surface of the cylinder to allow oil to stick to it, it is also the method used to get the cylinder to the final wanted dimensions.
from my textbook

Hone: an abrasive for correcting small irregularities of differences in diameter in a cylinder, such as an engine cylinder or brake cylinder.

in the practice of installing larger pistons then stock, you would first bore the cylinder to the new piston size, then hone to the clearance specifications. that being said there are different types of hones. some take off more materials then others, and some are meant solely to scuff the cylinder walls when they are already in spec...
i also agree that boring should be done by professional equipment. getting a cylinder perfectly round and perfectly straight is not a job for amateurs.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

your half right. boring is the first step in making the cylinder round, straight and close to the final diameter. while honing is used to scuff the surface of the cylinder to allow oil to stick to it, it is also the method used to get the cylinder to the final wanted dimensions.
from my textbook

Hone: an abrasive for correcting small irregularities of differences in diameter in a cylinder, such as an engine cylinder or brake cylinder.

in the practice of installing larger pistons then stock, you would first bore the cylinder to the new piston size, then hone to the clearance specifications. that being said there are different types of hones. some take off more materials then others, and some are meant solely to scuff the cylinder walls when they are already in spec...
i also agree that boring should be done by professional equipment. getting a cylinder perfectly round and perfectly straight is not a job for amateurs.

Oh, ok. We have 2 different ways of doing the same work.
So, to make myself perfectly clear: I would NEVER try to modify (or correct) the cyli9nder shape or size with a hand tool. The data I provided earlier was for honing as a method to create the oil scratches on the cylinder walls exclusively. The rest is, IMHO, machine shop territory.

[mikeinaus]

back on topic... heres a good vid i just found for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtJAuDZX ... re=related goes threw the process, 2 types of hones and what your trying to accomplish.

[wytbishop]

Inodoro is correct. Using honing tools to resize the cylinders is outside the intended use of a hone. If you measure and find that your cylinders are out of spec for correct piston clearance you would, ideally, go to a machinist and have them professionally bored to size on a computerized boring rack.

Having said that, part of my motorcycle mechanics certification required me to learn to do it by hand and I have done it many times with a rigid hone. When you look at the specs, the difference between standard and the first oversize is only 0.010" which is not so much to do by hand. Dirtbikes, especially competition ones, go through pistons like Daninski goes through underwear...like one every few months. It just isn't cost effective for the amateur racer to pay to have the cylinder bored by a machinist. A lot of racers learn to do this themselves so they don't even have to go to a mechanic.

It's totally doable.

[wytbishop]

2. i'm going to ask wyt to be the godfather of all my children.

Can I be the Godfather of your engine? Children are too much responsibilty for me. That's why my wife and I stick with dogs.

[Daninski]

Ok, so tomorrows a new day and I think we're all feeling about the same so,,,good nite.

[SuperK]

Wyt (and the rest of the gang), I need to purchase the right set of tools for the job. Can you recommend me a set/style of tools? I see some micrometers which comes in kits, and single "digital" ones.

[wytbishop]

You are with PM.

This is your hone...
http://shop.yourtoolingstore.com/Sunnen ... TS1133.htm

[Daninski]

From a dollar point of view, second hand/pawn stores some times have nice tools at 50% or less than retail. I go into a couple 'Buy and Sell' shops here weekly just to see and have found some real nice bargains, Just a thought.

[mikeinaus]

craigslist is also great for tools.