Standalones

ryanlindenberg · Post by **ryanlindenberg** » July 18th, 2006, 2:07 am

i'm jumping on the haltech bandwagon...it is really easy to tune. (i've never used the DOS software, only halwin) you don't need the MAF with it either. i don't think the haltech is overrated...what can't you do with it? you can do anything that you will need/want to do with it.

i have the e6x with an innovate wideband...works really well.

BuGS · Post by **BuGS** » July 18th, 2006, 2:21 am

Well I will just say this, I would never trust a haltek after what happened to my brother and countless other RX7 owners. $10,000+ into a built engine and install only to have the haltek screw up once and BOOM, goes the engine and no warrenty coverage. I am sorry, but as of now, the Haltek is even a cheap alternate to a REAL standalone. I would say do it right, go with a Microtec or if I was going to do one, I would do a TEC III. Worth the money and they are very no hassle systems.

Franko · Post by **Franko** » July 18th, 2006, 3:49 am

Sigh.. Haltech is a real standalone, its just foolish to even suggest it isnt. They have been in the ems business for twenty years. I HIGHLY doubt that it was the haltech that caused the damage. You see more RX7's with haltechs than anything else. If his engine blew it was probally a bad tune or a sensor wired up wrong. It dosent matter what ems you are running, if the tune is s--- then the engine is not gonna last. Ive had nothing but success with my haltech as have alot of other people so I wouldent put down haltech just because at some point in the past someone somewhere might have had a problem with a haltech causing damage to their engine. Id like to know the exact circumstances of what happened. Haltechs are common, reliable and a fair price.

When you say countless other rx7 owners having trouble with this.. Do you have a link or something to show that? Im intrested to see.

hotsiit · Post by **hotsiit** » July 18th, 2006, 8:08 am

I do not have a stand alone yet myself, but I am looking into the Microtech for my mx. My brother just got his RX-7 back from the shop, and is running a full microtech setup on it. It seems pretty good, and he likes it. He is going to be getting it dyno tuned soon, and the guy who did all of his work (microtech, TII engine swap etc...) recommended the microtech for my application over the haltech, which he also recomends microtechs for rotaries over haltechs too. (but i am also looking into haltech's). I gotta do my homework and hopefully find a good deal on a some sort of setup...i gotta make sure i can hang with my bro's rx haha

Limegreen mx-3 · Post by **Limegreen mx-3** » July 18th, 2006, 12:00 pm

Tec II and good and TEC III are better mazdaspeed RX-8 &RX-7 IN HNRA are using TEC III

there is this guy with a 79 selby using a SDS full race setup. in the NHRA pulling 8sec passes at 165+ and getting better times than guys that are sponcered. all on his own called frenchie.

any kind of tec like

TEC
mircotec
heltec
motec

are all good in there own way matter of preffence.

i like TEC II a TEC III out of my price range but i like them as well. I seen them in action like thw way they work can do all kinds of things seen them in mazda , mitsu, honda and other as well. on;y thing that sucks about tec II not mabe anymore what ever out there is outhere but they still srevice them they range from $500-1300$.

JWMotorsports · Post by **JWMotorsports** » July 18th, 2006, 4:33 pm

There are Austrailian rotary cars running 6's, & 7's all day long with Microtech's

Lime, could you hook me up with a copy of the TEC III software? I'm wanting to look through the software as the TEC system is one I haven't actually got to poke around at.

Right now I'm personally looking between the AEM EMS, Accel DFI Gen 7+, or Microtech LT-10s....it will depend on cash in the end....but so far the AEM and Gen 7+ are neck and neck as I'm wanting massive n2o control and target AFR's. The two things I REALLY like about Accel's Gen 7+ is the closed loop nitrous control w/ engine save, target AFR's, even asks what size jets and pressure your running....thats just in the n2o setup! Then it also has the VE predictor which asks your Intake valve size, Intake valve lift, Intake valve closing angle, Intake runner length & diameter, what kind of port work you've done, bore size, stroke, compression ratio, exhaust type to establish a pretty darn good VE base table. It also has a very nice utility for calculating injector pulse widths as well. The other thing about the DFI Gen 7+ is that it doesn't use just a 16 point table (AEM is 32 I belive), it interpolates 16 times between each of those 16 points! It also has dataloging, 2-step, ect... all for around $1700

now thats sick! The TEC III I belive is around the same price if you don't add the DIS kit on to it correct?

Limegreen mx-3 · Post by **Limegreen mx-3** » July 18th, 2006, 9:16 pm

JWMotorsports wrote: all for around $1700 now thats sick! The TEC III I belive is around the same price if you don't add the DIS kit on to it correct?

i wish at that price.

check this site out.JWMotorsports

http://www.getfuelinjected.com

Steeb · Post by **Steeb** » July 18th, 2006, 11:59 pm

cjthor wrote:
Bochek wrote:ok well, my vote is for the Mega Squirt, ive never used one myself, but ive read all their doccumentation.
Bochek
I can fly the space shuttle....well i have never done it but I have read the manual...

i with bochek on the megasquirt because you can retain the stock ecu for acessories. it is definately much safer way to make adjustments than the safc and fpr.

then the price makes it worth it. megasquirt has a website with tons of people and different tuning software. just keep your afr at a good level and watch your egt's. and the pgt's n mx6's in the rear view.

The open design means you can construct a unique fuel injection system; You can combine high performance parts with OEM parts from various manufacturers because the device has been designed from the ground up to be flexible.

Teqnyck · Post by **Teqnyck** » August 2nd, 2006, 11:23 pm

If you're going to bring up MS, I'd like to bring up Greddy's Emanage Ultimate. I've got a friend who just got on for his 740turbo, and while it's not a full stand alone, it gives you full fuel and timing adjustments, as well as all the Greddy goods(wideband, MAF, 2-step). That's what I've been looking into, could be worth a look for you if you're on a budget.

Limegreen mx-3 · Post by **Limegreen mx-3** » August 3rd, 2006, 1:56 am

Teqnyck wrote:If you're going to bring up MS, I'd like to bring up Greddy's Emanage Ultimate. I've got a friend who just got on for his 740turbo, and while it's not a full stand alone, it gives you full fuel and timing adjustments, as well as all the Greddy goods(wideband, MAF, 2-step). That's what I've been looking into, could be worth a look for you if you're on a budget.

Greddy's Emanage Ultimate where made and wired up to sort of work best with honda & mitsu since thats where the market is. Greddy just assumed if u wire a mazda,kia,caviler, or any sport compact car it would work fine. Not the case where they crap out the engine. seen it to many times due to not wired right on a honda & mitsu or just was not campable with other car makes, wondering why and we told them so ready for a full standalone.

Greddy's Emanage Ultimate is still a piggyback a benchmark between a stock ecu and full standalone. would u trust a $400-$600 to run a lets say $5,000 engine i think not. Not everybody can afford a standalone due to being $$$$ and a wiring nightmare to these no know nothing about cars. Like some people who went the cheap way and found the hard way i should have used a standalone from the begining. Teqnyck a KLZE isn't cheap from 800-2500 depend where u get them. in ur opinion would u just like to buy another KLZE or a ems that can run ur engine correctly.

ita a matter of perfence on what people like to run their cars with some swar by Greddy's or other piggyback systems other whent with a standalone

Motech
Electromotive TEC II or TEC III or TEC III R
Heltech
Mircotech cheap standalone $1200
AEM if ur a honda
SDS seen a 79 selby making over a 1000HP on SDS seen it with my eyes

Mega Squirt U have to build it make it work meaning find some kind of triggerwheel and DFU, coils i mean and buying the harness and sensors and clips to get it work OK. haven't them in action to have my ok.

like once u go standalone to never go piggyback

Limegreen MX-3

Teqnyck · Post by **Teqnyck** » August 3rd, 2006, 2:19 am

wow! How can I argue with that! lol! Well I'm glad you told me know before I went out and bought something that I couldn't use. I have to ask, though. I mean, really, how difficult is it to wire up a MoTec/Haltec/Microtec? Do you actually have to hack the wiring harness up and rewire the new unit?

Bochek · Post by **Bochek** » August 3rd, 2006, 7:39 am

i just ordered my MS-1 yesterday, its going to be a full standalown. watch the worklog section in a coupple of days for updates.

Bochek

cjthor · Post by **cjthor** » August 3rd, 2006, 2:46 pm

Teqnyck wrote:wow! How can I argue with that! lol! Well I'm glad you told me know before I went out and bought something that I couldn't use. I have to ask, though. I mean, really, how difficult is it to wire up a MoTec/Haltec/Microtec? Do you actually have to hack the wiring harness up and rewire the new unit?

Microtech has the wiring diagrams on their website. Not tooo difficult.

JWMotorsports · Post by **JWMotorsports** » August 3rd, 2006, 5:04 pm

If you have a digital multimeter with a tone generator & the car's OEM wiring diagram its a breeze...assuming you know a good deal about electronics.

If you had problems getting your S-AFC to work....don't even attempt this as you'll cost your self a lot of money in the long run.

First you need a general understanding of basic electronics. Then a bit about how the various electronics in the car work. My recommendation is for you to purchase "Tuning ACCEL/DFI 6.0 Programmable Fuel Injection". It is published by HPBooks and written by Ray T. Bohacz. It tells you about the different sensors, how they work, and what they are used for first. Then it teaches you how to properly size your fuel injection system components. Then it gives some a bit of info on intake manifold design and then tells you step by step how to setup the EMS and then how to tune it as well. Second best EFI book I've ever read, very easy to follow. Don't just read it once or all at one time either. Read, re-read, repeat, then referance as needed. Further more you need a good understanding of how the engine's internals work, pook around on http://www.howstuffworks.com

Most full standalone systems have the option for you to buy a universal "Flying Lead Harness". That is the option I go for because it eliminates old wireing that who knows who has chopped into etc... I've had a LOT of bad install experiances due to other peoples wiring and recommend inexperianced people to stay away from them. I've got the tools and knowledge to trouble shoot and find such things but it can be VERY time consuming. Starting with a new harness also offers you the option to reroute your harness and hide it for a stealth install. The only OEM wires left in my car...for the time being...are the circuits for the lighting system, I went through and removed all the unused wires out of the OEM harnesses and completely removed & replaced the main fuse box that was located inthe engine bay. By doing so my car lost a considerable amount of weight just in OEM wiring! Another thing I did was put my EMS and fuel pump on two seperate toggles. This enables me to leave power to the EMS for tuning, tweaks, monitoring, etc... with the ign key out. It also enables me to disconnect a fuel line and pump the 93 octane or C16 gas out of the tank VERY quickly

Both the Microtech and the Haltech are very friendly EMS systems. As for having accessories...standalones have inputs & outputs for accessory signals, both digital and analog (beware of what you buy...some have MANY and some have little or even none). Digital monitors frequency (ie...speed, rpm) and analog looks at just voltage (ie...tps,afr,egt). When you turn for example the AC on there is a signal out put by the AC clucth solinoid. That signal is what needs to be feed to the accessory signal input of the EMS. The EMS has a programmable fuel & timing table or adjustment that is user configurable. When the EMS sees this signal it will look at the user input spec and compensate for the AC's load when the clutch is engaged. Same thing the OEM system does.

AEM can work in other cars. Most people say their crap because they can't tune them or don't have them grounded properly. There are different versions of the AEM EMS as well. The $1300 off the shelf unit is pretty basic...for the AEM's capabilities

and are available for direct plug in on Civics, Miatas, Talons, Eclipses, etc... You can get the AEM Pro EMS...for about $2600... and it comes with built in wide band drivers, K-Type thermocoupler drivers (EGT probe drivers/direct connect). Blahhh blahhh blahhh....does Motech still exist?

Yes, but the AEM gives the top of the line Motech systems a run for their money! These EMS systems are hard to program and VERY time consuming. Why? Because the AEM EMS systems have SEVERAL load maps that overlay each other, unlike most speed density EMS systems. Most people honestly don't need the AEM system. It has full closed loop control, nitrous control out the B-hole, traction control, pretty much you name it....it'll do it!

Limegreen mx-3 · Post by **Limegreen mx-3** » August 3rd, 2006, 5:31 pm

JWMotorsports u sound like my bother giving one of his vhan go painting on a subject. Not dissing just reminds me of my punk butt brother at least it looks like u know what ur talking about.

reason i said motech ive seen in the NHRA a motech sysytem on a TC sion kenny trans new ride. i try to make the NHRA events when i can. even saw a SDS freck me and Ric out.