another dual exhaust thread..

Flashpoint2 · Post by **Flashpoint2** » June 21st, 2005, 3:02 pm

I have a dual exhaust on mine, it was NO PROBLEM to fit it, but it's only from the last flange back, not cat-back. I've had people tell me that it can't be done, but I have it. That stuff about not having enough room because of the spare tire well is crap. And i've got 3" mufflers on it

I'd post pics, but I don't know how.

if someone wants to post em for me....

ninjajim4 · Post by **ninjajim4** » June 21st, 2005, 3:14 pm

well... this was an interesting read. i guess i'll start from the top.

i don't want a purely cosmetic exhaust, because they look ridculous when its cold enough to see exhaust fumes. i'd sooner go without. however, to say i'm 'hellbent' on a fully functioning dual exhaust isnt accurate either. from the last few posts of mine, i'd say it's kinda clear that i'd be settling for some middle ground -- something that looks like dual exhaust but isn't.

as for back pressure... i don't have any misconceptions. i dont have any conceptions period. i don't recall mentioning anything about it. nor i do recall saying anything about a ZE mod being cosmetic, or dumping a lot of money on a performance robbing mod. somehow i think you've extracted a lot of things from this thread that aren't there.

my entire point all along has been that i'm not willing to 'dump insane amounts of money' into a mod that will ONLY enhance the appearance of my car's a-- while giving it the performance it already has. you're right; to me that is wasteful. that's why i've been asking questions as to how i might avoid having to go through all that effort and expense, and give it the full look and half assed function of a dual exhaust, without seriously modding it in a way that was harmful to its current performance. was that ignorant of me? i didn't realize...

you're obviously a knowledgable guy so i appreciate the 2 cents. but while i may not kno jack about exhaust or cars in general, dont confuse me for a ricer kid who's got a stubborn idea stuck in his head and doesn't want to let it go no matter how many experts and stickies you throw at him -- you coulda just answered my question instead and said two tail pipes outta one muffler is gonna screw the whole works, dont do it!! -- if that is indeed the case. maybe its wishful thinking. i don't kno yet either way. but then, that's why i asked.

ninjajim4 · Post by **ninjajim4** » June 21st, 2005, 3:27 pm

Flashpoint2 wrote:I have a dual exhaust on mine, it was NO PROBLEM to fit it, but it's only from the last flange back, not cat-back. I've had people tell me that it can't be done, but I have it. That stuff about not having enough room because of the spare tire well is crap. And i've got 3" mufflers on it
I'd post pics, but I don't know how. if someone wants to post em for me....

i'd love to see some pics of this, particularly the undercarriage side of things. send em to me and i'd be more than happy to post em up for everyone else too

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » June 21st, 2005, 3:34 pm

true dual-exhaust = having one header having its own pipe, muffler & cat routed to the back.

So you'd basically be haivng an exhaust per cylinder bank.

Pro's? Definite gains in power & flow & most likely an awesome sound Con's? LOTS OF FRIGGIN WEIGHT ADDED which will likely negate if not negatively effect the performance of the car.

Just adding a Y pipe and having the pipe split off to two seperate tailpipes, while utilizing a single cat is basically just adding weight. You won't get any performance benefits since the cat & single pipe already restricted what flow you had. Only pro: adds the look you are looking for. Con? Makes your car slower and (IMO) ric3r.

ninjajim4 · Post by **ninjajim4** » June 21st, 2005, 5:45 pm

only makes it slower by weight, right? i dont see adding an extra tailpipe doin too much damage... someone correct me if i'm wrong on that.

and less (albeit only a little

) ricer than a completely fake one, even if it's not doing any actual work and jsut re-rerouting fumes.

btw thnx for that console, i put it in yesterday. finally a complete interior

Flashpoint2 · Post by **Flashpoint2** » June 21st, 2005, 7:26 pm

here's the pics.. it's not pretty, but it *looks* like a dual, and both mufflers spout exhaust

My camera is horrid, so they aren't the best quality pics, and there's supposed to be three, but the 1st didn't show for some reason

ninjajim4 · Post by **ninjajim4** » June 22nd, 2005, 11:43 am

hey thanks for the pics flashpoint, looks pretty good to me!

but it looks like the piping goes right under the spare tire well, so do you ever have a problem bottoming out?

hows the perfomance been compared to stock?

Flashpoint2 · Post by **Flashpoint2** » June 22nd, 2005, 3:46 pm

hey thanks for the pics flashpoint, looks pretty good to me!

but it looks like the piping goes right under the spare tire well, so do you ever have a problem bottoming out?

hows the perfomance been compared to stock?

well, the car is lowered about 1.5 inches, but I have never, not once, bottomed out. As far as performance goes, there's essentially no difference, aside from the engine seeming to respond slightly quicker, but that could just be my imagination

It's been on there for so long I can't remember what it was like totally stock

The mufflers themselves are angled outward just slightly, but that's just cause the bend in the pipe was 3 or 4 degrees off of what it should have been. It looked straight at the time

I like the dual exhaust bit alot, actually, expecially since it works. Its got a deep enough rumble to it that it doesn't sound like a tin can, but it's not pretending to be a V8 either

most people i talk to like the sound.

georgechicken · Post by **georgechicken** » June 22nd, 2005, 8:11 pm

Wow... Did not mean to offend you there, Jim... Honest. Let me clarify and I'll start by telling you that I have a curse of overexplaining things from time to time.... every time... Before I ever started messing with cars and I needed a question answered, it always bugged the hell out of me when I got a simple answer because, to me, it sounded like the person doing the answering didnt seem to know a lot about what they were talking about.. on here, I go in depth with my answers for the simple reason that I'm far from perfect, and I do have some misconceptions, misinformation, or am just wrong from time to time. And for that reason, I welcome anyone who can correct me to do so, and because of all of this wonderful information, you'll be a bit more knowledged about what it is youre doing and that can give you the ability to go into that shop and keep from getting screwed over when they see that you have the ability only to give them the money and keys and take what they give. I've worked at quite a few shops in several different areas of specialty, and I've seen too many people get taken advantage of. I don't stand for it, won't stand for it, and try to help whoever I can keep from getting taken advantage of. This stuff may also help the guy who plans on building his own exhaust and does a search and comes across this thread. I' harp on safety and quality, as should everyone else, and that guy just may keep from making a costly, dangerous, or stupid mistake because of the extra wording... I'm not just answering you. Chances are that some other person out there had the same question and you beat them to it. I'll ask my fair share of questions here just as I have many times before, and I'd hope that the person that answers cares enough about my safety and time to go the extra mile and make sure that I'm cut in on any other help, tips, shortcuts, etc. that there are. It embarassed my mentor at my first job as a mechanic for Jaguar when I found a shortcut when installing a starter on a Land Rover that cut the job from the typical 3 1/2 hours it took him to well under an hour (he had been working there for over 20 years and had dealt with this job COUNTLESS times. ) I didn't feel that I was suddenly a great mechanic or anything, I just felt that since I had a different perspective on the subject at hand that I stumbled on some good knowledge... and anytime I saw another technician doing one of those dreaded starters, I shared the tip. I believe it's that "Do unto others" thing I've heard about a time or two...

Anyways, I'm off that soapbox... let me address your response and clear some stuff up since I detected a semi-pissed tone..

I saw that you stated that the reason you wanted the dual exhaust was for cosmetic reasons, particularly because your aftermarked bumper provided two cutouts for the tailpipe, and you didn't like the look of having a tailpipe cutout with no tailpipe... Hey, brother, I'm right there with you... I too like the look of a dual exhaust system (apparently, Mazda liked the two-pipe look since they tacked a extra ring onto the tailpipe of some models to make it look like the muffler had two outlets), and probably wouldnt buy a kit that had a rear bumper like that unless I had a dual system. Your point about the dead-looking muffler in cold weather was a good one that I didn't think of, because here in Tennessee, our weather is so goofy that we rarely see wintry temperatures in the winter... it's no Arizona, but I sure consider it to be a warm climate.. I was fortunate to experience my first Christmas with snow on the ground this year... most was melted, but hell, it was a first... strange... different perspectives...

Ah, the 'hellbent'... I realized that you weren't 'hellbent' on having two pipes (because if you were, you would have gone from shop to shop until you found someone that could or would do it, right?), but I sure picked the wrong word for your instance.. looking back over one of your posts, I also see that you mentioned something about two pipes and one muffler... I tend to thorougly read the first post of a thread and generally scan the replies... I scanned right past that line.... And the funny thing is that just before seeing it, I had a picture pop into my head of a muffler I saw on the wall of a local speed shop several years back, and it had one pipe as the outlet on one end of it, and on the other end, right beside the inlet, there was a second outlet, made just for this purpose... I couldnt tell if the pictures that were posted used this kind of muffler or not, but that is probably going to be the most cost effective way to go about getting your 2 pipe setup, and surely the easiest.

As for backpressure... since the "Backpressure FAQ" was added here, I have recommended it be read to anyone that had questions about exhaust work. I mainly made the comments about the misunderstanding of it and exhaust in general because Need4spdSE (my apologies if I misspelled your name) made the comment "This may not be related to backpressure, but it'll be good for explaing a proper exaust setup", and that triggered me... one pet peeve of mine is to hear the ricers (which yeah, I had envisioned you as possibly being as much as 50% ricer... my apologies

) talk about backpressure and how having 8 inch pipes is a wet dream and all when in fact it would do far more harm than good... you're right, you didnt mention backpressure or anything about it... likewise, I didn't say that you did. Again, I was just trying to be as informative and helpful as possible.
Another one that I didnt say was that you had intended the ZE as a cosmetic upgrade. I get the feeling that you think I may have been implying it, but I was not. That bit was just me trying to make a point.. and to clarify, the point was that since you have future plans of installing a ZE, then it would be unwise to put in place an exhaust system that will hinder it. Now, to work backwards from that point, I pointed out that I couldnt imagine you (or anyone, hopefully) installing the ZE for only cosmetic reasons, not that you had said you planned to or even that you implied that you would. I deduced that if you were going to spend the sizable chunk of cash it would take and spend the time needed to do the swap, that it surely would be for performance reasons (I was stating the obvious... thats why I jokingly said that if I was wrong and you were indeed doing it for looks, then make a trip here for me to slap you.) To tie it all together into the final point, by jumping up to a functioning dual exhaust setup (excluding the one I mentioned that was designed to supply a second inlet on the opposite side of the magic muffler), you would be hurting the performance of your car... and maybe greatly, depending on how badly this theoretical system would have been designed and constructed... In turn, the new motor that you spent precious time and money on (for performance, right?) would already be handicapped by what would have been an expensive, heavy, and virtually worthless (but hopefully damn good looking and sounding) exhaust system. Some folks are willing to cripple their cars at the sake of performance and money (see: 26" wheels), and some to an insane extent. Another curse of mine is that I tend to overanalyze and yes, I do indeed extract a lot of information that wasnt necessarily directly pointed out.

If somehow I made you feel that I thought you were the type to waste tons of money and time, it was completely unintentional. You said nothing that made me believe that you would, I just sometimes use sarcasm a little heavily and it comes out as being condescending... and for the ones that know me, unfortunately, I come off as sarcastinc when I'm trying to condescend.. damn it, man.

Look, anything with these cars is possible, given enough time and money. unfortunately, not all of us have endless supplies of either or both... for those of us who have limited resources, we tend to want the best bang for the buck, and thats a guideline I use with every bit of advice I give. In essence, my rant boiled down to "it aint worth it"... Search out the muffler I spoke of. that shop was a dealer for MagnaFlo (I had an exhaust with a magnaflo.. sounded soooo badass... '95 RS mx-3), so that may have been the maker... Good luck, man, and I hope I cleared everything up... And if you have ANY other questions, I'll try to be a bit easier on you next time...

Daniel

Flashpoint2 · Post by **Flashpoint2** » June 22nd, 2005, 10:22 pm

So what you're saying is you talk alot

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » June 22nd, 2005, 10:36 pm

^^^ wow ^^^

i'm not even going to attempt to read all of that. i take it he is mad or something lol

sw-ontarioguy · Post by **sw-ontarioguy** » June 22nd, 2005, 10:48 pm

he wasnt mad at all. He just likes saying things so easy to understand, that if we get confused, we need to find a board in a language we have a better understanding of

ninjajim4 · Post by **ninjajim4** » June 22nd, 2005, 11:31 pm

aww cmon, go easy now... he's not sucha bad guy

i appreciate all the words, man.

RaverChankoMX3 · Post by **RaverChankoMX3** » June 23rd, 2005, 8:55 am

Hey wasn't this just on Oprah yesterday?

georgechicken · Post by **georgechicken** » June 23rd, 2005, 4:57 pm

ROFLMAO! ...

yes, I was on oprah, and I just started my period, thanks to you guys... geez...

Yes, I talk too much, and yes, it annoys the piss out of me, too.

... and WTF is a Chanko?

let's take this one to springer, b----

hey, ontarioguy, don't find another board if you get confused... just ask someone else that speaks SIMPLE english to explain it..

Daniel