Design Engineering

BuGS · Post by **BuGS** » September 12th, 2006, 8:41 pm

I hope you guys are smart enough to just make your own kit if you are seriopusly looking into it. These are very easy to make. They were aroung for a long time on Homemade turbo before an actualy "kit" came around.

JWMotorsports · Post by **JWMotorsports** » September 12th, 2006, 9:59 pm

The idea behind injecting the CO2 is that it becomes a gas state like N2O.

I know what they were talking about at first but I'm bring this up because it takes it one step further

I'd say DEI would be marketing it if it did work as I am wondering...but....sometimes those companies over look the gold mine of their market.

The CO2 should be injected via a Nitrous kit honestly for the best effect. The small nozzles of the nitrous kits atomize the molecules and help evenly distribute them. The cheap way would be to buy a nitrous solinoid & fuel solinoid w/ the lines and wet fogger nozzle (or nozzles for direct port). I'd jet it for a 75 shot on the fuel side and a 35ish shot on the Nitrous side for use with CO2. The reason is because if it works like I think it will your going to get double the shot with the same volume of CO2 instead of N20 and you'll need double the fuel. Use a Wideband AFR Meter & EGT gauge to analyze what is happening. They will let you know how the theory is working out. If it is running 10:1AFR range it isn't working as planned and I'd reduce the fuel jet back to the nitrous jet size and retest. If your AFR's are in an acceptable the first run then it would show the theory is correct. Do not run this test long as you chance damaging the engine if the AFRs go to far in either direction for very long. This is where an EGT gauge will save your @$$ every time if you keep an eye on it. If you see EGT's peak around 1600*F your ok....but...if you see sudden spikes in temp or temp elevates over 1600*F then you better let off the throttle as it is a warning your about to melt down. Temp spikes are detination.

PS

If using a single Fogger place the nozzle a few inches infront of the throttle. This will give a more even distribution into the plenum for better cyl. to cyl. mix. Consult one of the nitrous companies for the exact length from the throttle. I believe it is in the 3"-6" range but don't honestly remember.

BuGS · Post by **BuGS** » September 12th, 2006, 10:10 pm

JWMotorsports wrote:The idea behind injecting the CO2 is that it becomes a gas state like N2O.

I know what they were talking about at first but I'm bring this up because it takes it one step further I'd say DEI would be marketing it if it did work as I am wondering...but....sometimes those companies over look the gold mine of their market.

The CO2 should be injected via a Nitrous kit honestly for the best effect. The small nozzles of the nitrous kits atomize the molecules and help evenly distribute them. The cheap way would be to buy a nitrous solinoid & fuel solinoid w/ the lines and wet fogger nozzle (or nozzles for direct port). I'd jet it for a 75 shot on the fuel side and a 35ish shot on the Nitrous side for use with CO2. The reason is because if it works like I think it will your going to get double the shot with the same volume of CO2 instead of N20 and you'll need double the fuel. Use a Wideband AFR Meter & EGT gauge to analyze what is happening. They will let you know how the theory is working out. If it is running 10:1AFR range it isn't working as planned and I'd reduce the fuel jet back to the nitrous jet size and retest. If your AFR's are in an acceptable the first run then it would show the theory is correct. Do not run this test long as you chance damaging the engine if the AFRs go to far in either direction for very long. This is where an EGT gauge will save your @$$ every time if you keep an eye on it. If you see EGT's peak around 1600*F your ok....but...if you see sudden spikes in temp or temp elevates over 1600*F then you better let off the throttle as it is a warning your about to melt down. Temp spikes are detination.

PS

If using a single Fogger place the nozzle a few inches infront of the throttle. This will give a more even distribution into the plenum for better cyl. to cyl. mix. Consult one of the nitrous companies for the exact length from the throttle. I believe it is in the 3"-6" range but don't honestly remember.

Funny thing is that CO2 is used to put out fires in Electrical rooms and in Submarines...

Try it sometime, N2O over a flame will make it go HUGE, CO2 over a Flame will make is go out.... CO2 is only used to cool stuff down like IC's and piping.

JWMotorsports · Post by **JWMotorsports** » September 14th, 2006, 10:23 pm

laughing at myself!

I know there was something I was forgetting! CO2 in electrical fire rated extinguishers. Baking Soda and ??? I forgot the other part...vinigar maybe??? Also extinguishes flames really well!

In order for CO2 to work you'll have to create a chemical reaction to release the Oxygen and heat is one thing that will do that. ie...CO2 Lasers use CO2 as a media because when introduced with molten metal it oxydizes it making it very brittle. It is awfully funny how CO2 puts out fires even though it carries so much oxygen. Another funny fact is that pure Nitrogen is used to prevent fires...ie..the space shuttle launch pad! Now.....is it just me or chemistry just went out the window on a basic level?????

Nitrogen purges oxygen and N20 has a VERY heavy Nitrogen content!

CO2 is used to put out fires which feed on Oxygen and CO2 has a VERY heavy Oxygen content!

Ever hear of back burning a fire? two fires run together running out of fuel to feed them. They say it burns off all the oxygen but I think the fire needs organic fuel as well as the oxygen. So what actually happens then the two fires have burned up all the organic fuel and NOT all the oxygen! Maybe someone just told it to me wrong when I was younger?

Combustion (fire) needs 3 things.

-Fuel
-Air
-Ignition Source

This is why I think CO2 will work IF you double the Fuel jet size (not the gas jet) when feeding it through a N2O wet injection setup. There by making twice the HP from the same volume of gas (not gasoline fuel).

Another fuel method would be to use a (for example...50 shot) wet Nitrous Kit. Feed CO2 to the Nitrous Jet side and feed Methonol to the Fuel (Gasoline) Jet. Methonol has a stoichiometric rate twice as rich as pump gasoline! Nitro methane has a stoichiometric rate about twice that of Methonol! PS...Nitro wears things out pretty quick, thats why top fuelers rebuild between rounds. The item that takes the biggest toll from Nitro is the piston rings and the the oil system as it becomes saturated in it! This occurs when running nitro mainly off power like idling and staging. At full power most all of it burns in off. The flames you see coming out of Nitro funny cars and rails are from Nitro that didn't burn in the combustion chamber.

-Pump Gas 14.7:1
-Methonol 6.5ish :1
-Nitromethane 4ish: 1

Gottagofaster · Post by **Gottagofaster** » September 15th, 2006, 1:06 am

Well i htink i'l stick with jsut using it as a coolant....I'll mess something up really bad if i tried to set something up like you just said

cjthor · Post by **cjthor** » September 15th, 2006, 1:24 am

JWMotorsports wrote:: ie...CO2 Lasers use CO2 as a media because when introduced with molten metal it oxydizes it making it very brittle.

Nope. aaaaactually the co2 is used as an exciter gas with two other gases in a vaccum chamber with a cathode and an anode. when the voltage arcs from the cathode to the anode the gasses create a field and that field is bounced across mirrors and out an output coupler and that is what gives you your laser. I worked on co2 lasers for about four years...im actually working on building my own 200 watt laser as we speak!