In-depth discussion on KF-ZE

[Custommx3]

My KF15 ecu I picked it up for ~ 180-200 bucks.


As far as IM diffrences. My KFZE IM is EXACTLY the same as a KLZE straightneck IM, except it has rounded intake runners instead of the square like the KLZE has.

[Mnemonic]

i paid 170 for my ecu from Shawn, he's the best route to go, as he can get them straight from japan and it only takes 2-3 weeks, but you could use your stock 1.8 ecu and just get a safc and tune the fuel right, just really depends on what you plan to do with the engine anyway

yep the bore is slightly different although techincally you could put a kf head on a k8 but you would have to have custom head gaskets made, and i dont really know how it would run. but then again me and barry do have different heads, cant really say how different because we cant get the 2 togeather to even see if there is a difference.

[Zoso124]

Originally posted by Custommx3:
Its a slight difference between a k8 head. I think the bore is a bit different. Rememeber, its a 2.0L.

Didn't you say your KF has K8 heads on it?

[Custommx3]

yes, but he compared the two gaskets, they are different

[Mnemonic]

i wish i would have taken a picture of my gaskets, to show, i mean really if you were brave enough you could make a set of k8 gaskets work on the kf, but thats one of the most important seals we have, so id rather order them for the kf.

and as for the heads, some kl blocks are stamped K8 still, that doesnt mean its a k8 or even swapable, just because our heads are stamped k8101 or k82 doesnt mean, parts from teh k8 will actually work,

infact THINGS THAT WILL SWAP OVER FROM THE HEADS:

heads= they will swap over but performance wise i dont know how they will run.

Valves= both sets, intake and exhaust, the k8 actually uses, a valve from the kf, when you go to mazda and order a set ( i had to order 1 intake and 1 exhaust to get the measurements for manley) the exhaust 1 is a kf valve and the intake is a k8 valve, i have the original valves from the kf if anyone needs to see.

Valve Stems= same as above

Valve Spring= same as above

HLA's (aka our "lifters")= mazda used the same size hlas in most of there engine, infact you can pull hlas out of a bpt and put them in a klze same size, just a lesser number of them.(dont go to mazda though to get these, there are performance places that make them for way less, 10 dollars per for a better quality hla than oem which is 40 dollars per)

Cams= cams from the k8, k8ze, kl, klze, kfze, kfde, i cant tell about the Kj due to the fact no ones ever played with one that i know.

valve covers= there all the same.

you cant swap kfze heads onto a kl motor they wont bolt up

thats all i can think of for now.

Brian

[lakersfan1]

If someone finds a reliable source of KF head gaskets, please post it on this thread. But vavlecover and intake gaskets should be the same as K8/KLDE as far as I can tell- yes?

[Mnemonic]

my bad [edit] the k8 isnt the same as the kl, the kl has larger runners

and Lazzyie (shawn) is who i went through to get my head gaskets, they were 240 dollars but he had them to me really quick, considering he had to get them from japan, Corksport was originally getting me a set, but 1st time they sent the wrong kind (klze) and then 3 months later hey said they couldnt get them.

<small>[ March 23, 2004, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: Mnemonic ]</small>

[lakersfan1]

Originally posted by Mnemonic:
yep, the same

and Lazzyie (shawn) is who i went through to get my head gaskets, they were 240 dollars but he had them to me really quick, considering he had to get them from japan, Corksport was originally getting me a set, but 1st time they sent the wrong kind (klze) and then 3 months later hey said they couldnt get them.

Wow. $240. That's a heap. Why'd you change them anyways? Were you planning FI or something? Or are those gaskets prone to drying out after the engine sits idle in a warehouse for a few years?

[Mnemonic]

changed them cause i was having head work done, (see signature) and once you remove your head you cannot reuse the gaskets.

[lakersfan1]

Originally posted by Mnemonic:
changed them cause i was having head work done, (see signature) and once you remove your head you cannot reuse the gaskets.

Ahhh. OK. But otherwise, there should be no reason to need to replace head gaskets on a normal drop-in swap, correct? Especially since these are all supposed to only have 30K - 40K miles on them?

[Mnemonic]

yep should be know reason unless you just want to do a rebuild on it

[UrBaNsTyLe55]

well on my kf-ze i'm runing it with the kl-de manifold, and also the kl-de ecu and vaf and i'm having no real fuel problems actualy i got a nice fuel mixture going, engine idles and runs nicely, as for valve cover gaskets and other stuff yuh they are the same as for a k8 and kl the only thing with the kf-ze is make shure you use spark plugs for the k8 engine and NOT the KL-DE MOTOR!! the kl-de ones are to long and the tips of the plugs starts to bend in, and for wires you can use the kl-de or k8, i chose the kl-de wires since there longer, manifold of the kf and kl-ze are the same just different runners, but the tb on the kf-ze is way smaller then the kl engines,a 3inch CAI is a plus on this engine i can tell you from experience and when doing an exhaust 2 1/4 is much better, you can go 2.6 but to me its to big unless going turbo. the distributor i'm using right now is off the kl-de motor, i was thinking to maybe later swap to the mx3 ecu since i heard about the two pulls it gives the engine of just finally buy the kf ecu,

[UrBaNsTyLe55]

hehe edit i didn't mean 2.6 i meant 2.5**

[lakersfan1]

OK. Good. Only questions still not answered are the one about how to get the EGR hooked up and how to tell a Euro KF with only 140 HP from a 170 HP Jap KF-ZE to make sure noone gets screwed with the wrong engine. Anyone want to field those? Also, anybody else have any other questions to interject? This isn't my thread. I just wanted one comprehensive thread for all questions on it for the archive.

[lakersfan1]

Got the EGR info for KLZE from ProbeTalk. I'd assume it's the same for the KF-ZE intake manifold as for the KF-ZE manifold. First, off, it seems the EGR is only hindered by the intake manifold on the Japanese engines. So, sourcing a KL-DE curved neck manifold should not only bolt right up and similar runner size, but it has an EGR hookup already. If you want to keep the Jap-spec intake manifold, posted by Omaha95PGT:

Fabricating an EGR pipe onto the KLZE IM:

Some states require emissions testing. The EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculator) is one of the integral parts of reducing emissions. For those people who live in these state, you may want to consider fabricating an EGR tube that completes the piping from the head to the intake manifold neck. Here is an example of a KLZE IM modified to regain the function of the EGR.

http://home.comcast.net/~mmunoz70/z/zeegr01.jpg

I'm not sure whose car this is, but thanks for the pic. I think it was Fazdaze (on PT)

If you want, I could do a write up about it. I never actually finished the piping of the EGR since I ended up selling the ZE IM I was using as my project ZE EGR'd IM. I actually have pics of the initial mod process.

The basic thought is to tap a hole just to the right of the #5 runner. This should line up with the EGR port in the rear head. Optimally, the EGR pipe should run to a spot on the IM neck that feeds both the front and rear cylinder banks. That spot is located where there is a cast aluminum fin support on the outside of the neck.

There was some discussion on the materials to use for the EGR pipe. The best would be to use 1/2" aluminum pipe bent to the appropriate shape and then brazed/welded to the IM. Unfortunately, it's also the hardest to do. The easiest would be to use bendable copper piping (such as the easily bent plumbing copper pipe you use for refrigerator ice cube maker water supply) and JB Weld it to the IM. The copper piping is so easy to bend you could even make 2 tubes feeding the front and rear banks separately. You could also use one large 1/2" copper pipe as well. If you use phenolic spacers, the JB Weld should stay cool enough so as not to fail due to heat. (I think it's rated to 300*F) Paint the JB Weld and copper piping for improved aesthetics.

With regards to passing emissions, Da-ze (on PT) said he brought his car for emissions testing and he didn't have a problem with passing his EGR-less KLZE (full) engine.


So the only question left is on how to tell a Euro KF from a Jap KF.