A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Aston Wards · Post by **Aston Wards** » February 18th, 2003, 7:09 pm

As far as I am aware, Xedos are euro-spec cars, any engines imported from Japan are likely to be J-spec engines, thus producing the 200hp. Having seen plenty of KL and KF engines, i can tell you that both come with either straight or curved necks, and i'd seriously doubt that the angle of an intake manifold neck could steal 25-30hp!

Cage · Post by **Cage** » February 18th, 2003, 7:27 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Vicious:
As far as I am aware, Xedos are euro-spec cars, any engines imported from Japan are likely to be J-spec engines, thus producing the 200hp. Having seen plenty of KL and KF engines, i can tell you that both come with either straight or curved necks, and i'd seriously doubt that the angle of an intake manifold neck could steal 25-30hp!<hr></blockquote>yes, the Eunos800 is the same specs as the Xedos 9. No the neck does not steal the power. The neck is why we have to use our 1.8 intake mani or go with a eunos 800 engine. The eunos is not a 10.1 compression engine and does not have horsepower agressive cams (KL-31). Also I am sure that the fuel map is also the problem as to why the Hp is lower on the eunos 800 design. As far as your quote "Xedos are euro-spec cars, any engines imported from Japan are likely to be J-spec engines, thus producing the 200hp". Where is your paper trail for the 200HP. ???????????????? Do you have a link to back that statement up?? This is exactly what I am talking about ...people post what they have been told or taught without any proof of the facts.
Sorry I am not singling you out. thank you for the post.

Cage

lazzyie · Post by **lazzyie** » February 18th, 2003, 7:59 pm

Cage if you are really that interested in it when you receive the front cut of whatever car you bought pull the engine apart and look at the pistons. If they are flat they are 10:1. If they are dished they are 9:2:1. You could put the engine in and hit a dyno to see if you are correct or if common thought is right.

Cage · Post by **Cage** » February 18th, 2003, 8:47 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by lazzyie:
Cage if you are really that interested in it when you receive the front cut of whatever car you bought pull the engine apart and look at the pistons. If they are flat they are 10:1. If they are dished they are 9:2:1. You could put the engine in and hit a dyno to see if you are correct or if common thought is right.<hr></blockquote>Lazzyie,
I don't intend (at this point) to buy the front clip, if it is 164hp -170hp. I don't want to pay for an engine and then find out what I recieved. My intention is to cause a debate over this information. Its about 100 bucks an hour to dyno sometimes minimum of 2 hours. That is 200 bucks that I would rather spend on preformance mods or food. I have heard that you have the eunos 800 engine from Swap JDM. Who here would like to donate 20 bucks to Lazzyie to find out the truth. I am game!! I will pay 30 bucks. We can set up a paypal account. ANY ONE GAME ??? Lazzyie is respected and trusted and I am sure he can rap this up for us. What do ya say Lazzyie? :p P.S do you have a link providing us with the differance in the pistons and compression? Sorry had to ask.[ February 18, 2003: Message edited by: Cage ]

ghandi1981 · Post by **ghandi1981** » February 18th, 2003, 10:02 pm

which engine do they sell at sun's engines???aj

Cage · Post by **Cage** » February 18th, 2003, 10:46 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by ghandi1981:
which engine do they sell at sun's engines???aj<hr></blockquote>THEY HAVE THE KL-ZE EUNOS 800 and the KL-ZE Straight neck that fits the ford probe.

curtklze · Post by **curtklze** » February 18th, 2003, 11:05 pm

it is only $75.00 CDN here in toronto to dyno a car.I did dyno my car, with my tiny stock exhaust and supper hot engine on a day that was about 85F my curved neck KL-ZE(millenia) put out 183 H.P. at the engine.These are not favourable conditions to test power.(manufacuters test with proper sized exhaust systems, with perfect air temp and humidity to make as much power as possable)its not to make excuses as to why my engine didnt make 200 H.P(I only expect 195-197, most people round up to 200) its to prove that its not a KLD from a A-spec car, which at most should have made 170 H.P and 165 pounds of torque, my car beat both by 13 H.P and 10 pounds of torque, I will be taking it back to the dyno this year to do a proper test, and I should see what Im looking for.ONLY japan and newzeland got KLZE's in the millenias, everywhere else (including austraileia) got KLD's rated at 170 H.P.The debate is over cause I know what Im talking about and I have the dyno graph to back it up. I posted it about 7-8 months ago and many of the people in this topic have seen it.

ghandi1981 · Post by **ghandi1981** » February 18th, 2003, 11:13 pm

so is that the 200hp engine????
aj

lazzyie · Post by **lazzyie** » February 18th, 2003, 11:19 pm

Nevermind, thank you Curt!!!![ February 18, 2003: Message edited by: lazzyie ]

ghandi1981 · Post by **ghandi1981** » February 18th, 2003, 11:39 pm

so how much hp does the eunos 800 have????aj

Cage · Post by **Cage** » February 18th, 2003, 11:56 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by curtklze:
it is only $75.00 CDN here in toronto to dyno a car.I did dyno my car, with my tiny stock exhaust and supper hot engine on a day that was about 85F my curved neck KL-ZE(millenia) put out 183 H.P. at the engine.These are not favourable conditions to test power.(manufacuters test with proper sized exhaust systems, with perfect air temp and humidity to make as much power as possable)its not to make excuses as to why my engine didnt make 200 H.P(I only expect 195-197, most people round up to 200) its to prove that its not a KLD from a A-spec car, which at most should have made 170 H.P and 165 pounds of torque, my car beat both by 13 H.P and 10 pounds of torque, I will be taking it back to the dyno this year to do a proper test, and I should see what Im looking for.ONLY japan and newzeland got KLZE's in the millenias, everywhere else (including austraileia) got KLD's rated at 170 H.P.The debate is over cause I know what Im talking about and I have the dyno graph to back it up. I posted it about 7-8 months ago and many of the people in this topic have seen it.<hr></blockquote>I have read your posts and your post states "you dynoed the car and it powererd out at 156.2 Horse power" Why can't you post your dyno again?

Your car and you reputation is not on the line here. I am not judging anyone, but again I am geting another post that has no fact. Was there another post maybe that said 183 H.P ???? Do you have a new mani now? are you still running the modified 1.8 ECU from corksport?
And no curt, The debate is not over cause you say you know what your talking about. This post is here to debunk fact from fiction and your post has no fact as of now. I am not trying to be an *** . I want to be wrong. I want to buy the eunos 800 engine. I want 195 to 200hp at the crank.

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » February 19th, 2003, 12:05 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Cage:
I want to buy the eunos 800 engine. I want 195 to 200hp at the crank.<hr></blockquote>Then buy an engine with KL31 heads and the curved neck manifold from Japan. It should have compression figures upwards of 200psi, whereas I've never seen a KLDE get above 180. It's annoying to have to prove the earth is round over and over...

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » February 19th, 2003, 12:22 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Cage:
I have read your posts and your post states "you dynoed the car and it powererd out at 156.2 Horse power" Why can't you post your dyno again?<hr></blockquote>
There is no way a KLDE could put down 156whp with a 1-3/4" exhaust. Curt, like 99% of all the other guys who've gotten 2.5L mazda engines from reputable Japanese engine importers, has an engine that is, as Mazda rates them, ~200ps when running with a MAF or correct VAF/ECU, proper exhaust and intake piping, and proper octane gasoline. You'll also notice the distribution of 2.5L MX-3 owner's trap speeds are bimodal [not taking into account ET's cause that can vary greatly, and trap speed is a more accurate indicator of power]. The KLDE guys are in the low 90's[with a few in the high 80's], and the KLZE guys are in the high 90's [with a few in the triple digits]. I don't know of any KLDE guys who have run quicker than 95mph, and no KLZE guys who have run slower than 95mph [if they can drive and the car isn't choked with stock exhaust and K8 VAF/ECU like mine is]. That is a clear indicator that there are 2 different KL's. I know of few MX-3 KLZE guys who have gotten the straight neck manifold when they bought the engine, cause it's much more of a pain in the rear to source a curved neck mani if you can just get it right in the first place. So, this shows that the KLZE's from Millenias that the majority of MX-3 guys get [KL01 cams, KL31 heads, curved neck mani] are ~200ps at the flywheel. Granted there are some freak motors, like Tekguy's KLZE with KL 101/1A1 heads [no way he could trap 99mph with a KLDE, and sure enough, he had flat topped pistons when he tore the motor down...]. And there are going to be some Millenias that have the same motor that the north american Millenias get, namely the one that is 146kw/170bhp. I know some years of millenia came with the 170hp KL, the 200ps KLZE, and the Miller cycle motor in Japan [the 99's did I recall from reading mazda.co.jp back then...].The best way, IMO, of figuring out how much power your engine is going to have before you buy it [comparing the 2 types of Millenia KL's] is a simple compression test. If your figures are ~160-180psi, it's a KLDE; if they're 190-220psi, its a KLZE. If you've already got the motor, dyno it or take it to the track. If you've never drag raced before and you only trap 90mph, that surely doesn't mean you have a KLDE, it means you need to learn how to drag race

. The best is obviously a chassis dyno if the engine is already in. There is just a mountain of evidence that shows the Japanese Market Millenia 2.5L's are by and large 200ps, with few exceptions. Sigh...the earth is round...I swear...and if you still don't think so, then I give up.

Hy300 · Post by **Hy300** » February 19th, 2003, 12:25 am

I'm with David, and all I'm hearing from Cage is skepticism and opinion without fact.

Cage · Post by **Cage** » February 19th, 2003, 12:33 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by David Coleman:
Then buy an engine with KL31 heads and the curved neck manifold from Japan. It should have compression figures upwards of 200psi, whereas I've never seen a KLDE get above 180. It's annoying to have to prove the earth is round over and over...<hr></blockquote>Can you send me a link to provide proof the earth is round? ...

Mr. Coleman
I joined this board in 2001. One of my first questions on this board was what version of KL-ZE I needed. I was told the Eunos 800. I just want people to look at what has been posted verses what has been written by Mazda and minority. Right now if you do a search on a 1994 V6 4.3L GMC Jimmy you will find the exact specs of the engine with out argument. If you call any J-spec Engine shop and tell them you want an eunos 800 engine they will sell you one. Most people don't know to ask for the stamping on the block, cams, and piston dishing. If you get on ebay they sell Eunos 800's listed as 200hp. The question is not what I should buy. I have researched this and my jury is in. This post was to serve the newbie’s who need the correct info. I am not saying the eunos 800 is only 164-170 Hp. I am saying no one has proven it. There are to many things that are different on these engines for them to be rated the same. If the KL-ZE is 170Hp then why did mazda make the KF-ZE 2.0L V6 170hp engine. This engine is easy to prove what hp and compression it has. It is not my intention to piss everybody off. but I have I think succeeded in proving that nobody knows how much horsepower the eunos 800 really has or even what the compression is. As far as the power from the crank vs wheels the difference should not be more than 86.5% for stick shift cars. That takes into account for the dyno equipment and the clutch, driveshaft, and anything else than has drag on the sytem 86.5% would mean than 190Hp engine should off the dyno @ the right temp and Air pressure pull 164.35 Hp at the wheels. A 200hp should pull 173.00. a good dyno already takes that and rolls equipment resistance into the output number. so from our dyno readings we should only see 7% to 15% range difference in crank vs wheels. Credit to University of Massachusetts Amherst. http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~tcroy/horsepower.htmPS Mr.Coleman do you have a responce to this http://www.millenia.mazda.co.jp/spec04.htmlPeace
Cage[ February 18, 2003: Message edited by: Cage ]

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A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP

Re: A dark day in Eunos800 (Xedos 9) land. Not 200HP