Re: under powered cars ( Mazda )
Posted: September 19th, 2003, 2:44 am
Ok, let's start this fools. HAHAHAHA.<p>Honda is 3 G's. Like I've said before. Grandma's, Groceries, and Gas Milage. Let us do a little comparison shall we? Since we all drive the MX-3, we'll take that car. MX-3 GS. And since 99.999% of the worlds population drives the Civic. Let's take the Civic. I don't care what model because everyone wants a B series engine in their Civic anyway.<p>(stats according to Edmunds.com)
Mazda MX-3 GS $4293
Horsepower: 130 hp Max Horsepower: 6500 rpm Torque: 115 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 4500 rpm<p>Honda Civic EX Coupe $5075
Horsepower: 125 hp Max Horsepower: 6600 rpm Torque: 106 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 5200 rpm<p>Ok, these 2 cars are very similar in horsepower and torque numbers. Within 10 on both. Now, the Civic is lighter than the MX-3 by 202#. This is where torque thrives. With less weight. Less weight means more power because the car doesn't lose as much thru the drive train.<p>Although this should be a close race, who wins??? The GS. Why??? Hmm. Mystery to me. (whispers 'transmission')<p>Ok, now let's mod these little mother fella's.<p>MX-3 KL03 swap Vs Civic B16A swap<p>Engine:
KL03 = $400-$600 <p>B16A = $2000-$3000
Advantage: MX-3<p>Drive Train Mods:
MX-3 = NONE <p>Civic = Transmission
ECU
Half Shafts
Motor Mounts
Etc.
Advantage: MX-3<p>POWER AQUIRED:
MX-3 = 164 Horespower 160 Torque
Civic = 160 Horsepower 125 Torque (ouch)
Advantage: MX-3<p>Looks like the MX-3 took this race<p>MX-3 KLZE swap VS Civic B18C5 Swap (I love this one)<p>Engine:
KLZE = $1000 <p>B18C5 = $5000 (DAYM!)
Advantage: MX-3 (By $4000)<p>Drive Train Mods:
MX-3 = NONE <p>Civic = Transmission
ECU
Half Shafts
Motor Mounts
Etc.
Advantage: MX-3<p>POWER AQUIRED:
MX-3 = 200 Horsepower 180 Torque <p>Civic = 195 Horsepower 156 Torque
Advantage: MX-3<p>Damn, 2 comparable swaps (in the ways of power output, we're not even gunna go into the realm of prices paid) and the MX-3 came out on top on....All 3 catagories. Damn, and I thought Honda's were easy and cheap to get power out of. And don't give me that 'lower torque helps off the line' because if you're running 150Ft.Lbs. of TQ and side step at 3K RPM you're gunna spin the tires. Plain and simple. <p>Now, lets go with the S2000. Cough! Cough! 240HP is an impressive number. I have to admit. But when it peaks at 8300 RPM, that's a little high don't you think? When the KLZE gets peak HP around 6K and shifted by 7K you'll have a higher speed (and be further ahead) by the time that 240HP peaks. And when the KLZE TQ peaks at 4K (speculation I have no real clue, but the K8 peaks around there) then that's more usable power lower in the powerband than the 153 TQ peaking at 7400RPM. SIDE NOTE: by the way, higher torque numbers mean the engine will reach 6500RPM faster than one with a lower torque figure. <p>All this means that by the time the s2000 hits 6500RPM the KLZE will have shifted and be on it's way to peak in the next gear, but the s2000 still has 2000RPM to go before it get's it's peak. Advantage: KLZE.<p>I'm not sayin Honda doesn't make nice engines. If you wanna save gas and drive slow, a honda engine is good to have. If you're into performance, go .......anything else. <p>Also, I'm not saying you can't get high horsepower and torque numbers from a honda engine either. It has been done before....but it will cost you your new born and your right arm to do it, while us in the KL03/KLZE MX-3's have that ammount of horsepower and still have money to actually pay to get into the races.<p>Moral of this story...<p>HONDA'S SUCK!!!!<p>Oh, one more thing. There are some honda engines that have a higher TQ figure than HP. The D15B8 (Civic CX) and the D15A2 (Civic CRX HF) Too bad the HP numbers are 70 and 56 respectively. LMFAO. Do well against a B6 don't ya think? LOL<p>[ September 19, 2003: Message edited by: VizualXTC ]</p>
Mazda MX-3 GS $4293
Horsepower: 130 hp Max Horsepower: 6500 rpm Torque: 115 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 4500 rpm<p>Honda Civic EX Coupe $5075
Horsepower: 125 hp Max Horsepower: 6600 rpm Torque: 106 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 5200 rpm<p>Ok, these 2 cars are very similar in horsepower and torque numbers. Within 10 on both. Now, the Civic is lighter than the MX-3 by 202#. This is where torque thrives. With less weight. Less weight means more power because the car doesn't lose as much thru the drive train.<p>Although this should be a close race, who wins??? The GS. Why??? Hmm. Mystery to me. (whispers 'transmission')<p>Ok, now let's mod these little mother fella's.<p>MX-3 KL03 swap Vs Civic B16A swap<p>Engine:
KL03 = $400-$600 <p>B16A = $2000-$3000
Advantage: MX-3<p>Drive Train Mods:
MX-3 = NONE <p>Civic = Transmission
ECU
Half Shafts
Motor Mounts
Etc.
Advantage: MX-3<p>POWER AQUIRED:
MX-3 = 164 Horespower 160 Torque
Civic = 160 Horsepower 125 Torque (ouch)
Advantage: MX-3<p>Looks like the MX-3 took this race<p>MX-3 KLZE swap VS Civic B18C5 Swap (I love this one)<p>Engine:
KLZE = $1000 <p>B18C5 = $5000 (DAYM!)
Advantage: MX-3 (By $4000)<p>Drive Train Mods:
MX-3 = NONE <p>Civic = Transmission
ECU
Half Shafts
Motor Mounts
Etc.
Advantage: MX-3<p>POWER AQUIRED:
MX-3 = 200 Horsepower 180 Torque <p>Civic = 195 Horsepower 156 Torque
Advantage: MX-3<p>Damn, 2 comparable swaps (in the ways of power output, we're not even gunna go into the realm of prices paid) and the MX-3 came out on top on....All 3 catagories. Damn, and I thought Honda's were easy and cheap to get power out of. And don't give me that 'lower torque helps off the line' because if you're running 150Ft.Lbs. of TQ and side step at 3K RPM you're gunna spin the tires. Plain and simple. <p>Now, lets go with the S2000. Cough! Cough! 240HP is an impressive number. I have to admit. But when it peaks at 8300 RPM, that's a little high don't you think? When the KLZE gets peak HP around 6K and shifted by 7K you'll have a higher speed (and be further ahead) by the time that 240HP peaks. And when the KLZE TQ peaks at 4K (speculation I have no real clue, but the K8 peaks around there) then that's more usable power lower in the powerband than the 153 TQ peaking at 7400RPM. SIDE NOTE: by the way, higher torque numbers mean the engine will reach 6500RPM faster than one with a lower torque figure. <p>All this means that by the time the s2000 hits 6500RPM the KLZE will have shifted and be on it's way to peak in the next gear, but the s2000 still has 2000RPM to go before it get's it's peak. Advantage: KLZE.<p>I'm not sayin Honda doesn't make nice engines. If you wanna save gas and drive slow, a honda engine is good to have. If you're into performance, go .......anything else. <p>Also, I'm not saying you can't get high horsepower and torque numbers from a honda engine either. It has been done before....but it will cost you your new born and your right arm to do it, while us in the KL03/KLZE MX-3's have that ammount of horsepower and still have money to actually pay to get into the races.<p>Moral of this story...<p>HONDA'S SUCK!!!!<p>Oh, one more thing. There are some honda engines that have a higher TQ figure than HP. The D15B8 (Civic CX) and the D15A2 (Civic CRX HF) Too bad the HP numbers are 70 and 56 respectively. LMFAO. Do well against a B6 don't ya think? LOL<p>[ September 19, 2003: Message edited by: VizualXTC ]</p>