War talk

[VizualXTC]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by blkmx3_v6:
We must realize that going to war is the only chance the president has of making a mark on his term and hopes of being re elected for a second term. Politics- dont you just love it? <hr></blockquote><p>You think this war is so Bush can be remembered? You really need to get out of the house more dood.

[johnnyb]

tell me<p>do you honestly think hussein is more of a threat than N. Korea?<p>Iraq has some crappy missles that cant even reach the states and hes a threat to the US?<p>
Wake up here N. Korea in my opinion is more of a threat. Hussein has sat around for the past decade and not even tried to attack anyone. Is the US gonna attack China because it has nukes and is capable of wiping out north america? No. So why do you need to ship over an entire army to take out a guy that cant even fire a missle as far as egypt?

[EBUCKS]

I actually really like politics and am considering running for a position in the future, in my area. Guys, I have nothing but love for you as you see on the bottom of all of my post I say "one", as 'one people'. I type it and don't put it in my sig, because I want to remember that. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> this statement is false, when did the U.S. or the U.N. elect Bin Laden as a leader??? <hr></blockquote><p>Whoa! Bin Laden was created to help the US spy on Russia as a malitia group during the cold war. He went to school in the US as well. Although not elected, he was put there. <p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Nobody made the US the police of the world. We don't act like the police. We act like a big brother. See, if we see a problem we do what we can to fix it. What kind of a person (or country) sees people being hurt and dying for no reason and shrugs it off? If someone you cared about was under that kind of rule, would you just sit and allow it? Neither will we. If people are hurting we're gunna help them. Not because we wanna be "the police of the world" but because we CARE about PEOPLE, not just ourselves. <hr></blockquote><p>Big brother, mom, police, etc, same thing, no? <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>this statement is also false. Japan is pissed off?? Wrong, Japan was one of the first to mobilize its troops to the middle east after sept. 11th in total support of the U.S. We pretty much built Japan from the ground up, I have a feeling you don't know anything about ww2. They bombed us, evil emperor in charge, we overthrew him and built a democracy, they are now one of the richest nations in the world. As far as the other countries, you must give examples, otherwise, this is just, well, "street talk." <hr></blockquote><p>Keep on thinking that. I revert to what Battsoi said about the Spanish government. Many governments being told to go along with it will do so, so as not to upset "big brother". <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> this doesn't really have anything to do with whats going on, thats other countries problems if they want to scare people by mentioning our countries name then thats wrong, but its not like we "police" everyone in the world that do this. And this statement also reaffirms why the U.N. exists. <hr></blockquote><p>As a result of US bullying, governments have used IT against their people. Doesn't this bother you? You're right it has nothing to do with what's going on today. I was really just giving an example of adverse effects of bullying. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> This is the most bullheaded comment I have ever read. You think the attack on the World Trade Center affected only the US? LMFAO!!! Like I and others have pointed out, it's not the United States Trade Center. It's the WORLD'S Trade Center. This was an attack on the WORLD. Has the attack affected YOUR economy? Yes. Has it afctected the economy all across the world? Yes. And since when have we been a "bully"? Give me an example when we invaded a country to gain profit. Yes we jump into the fight, but we never start the fight. Just because YOU think we have that rep. don't mean it's true. In all honesty I see little fact in anything you have said. I see a lot of opinion, surmise, and conjecture, but no fact. You ask for facts supporting our claims? Let's see your facts. <hr></blockquote><p>I never asked for facts. I refuse to go through archives as it takes long enough just to post all of this. What you've said here is out of anger and I'll let you retract your statement later. Perception is 9/10 of how people see you. If it is perceived that profit is being made in these Gulf wars, by the rest of the world then so the jury stands. You can't fight it. But show us different. By that I don't mean factually. I mean the future as a country. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Run your country and not others huh? I'd love to see how the world would get along without the US. I hope I'm dead before the US dies because I KNOW the world would be total Anarchy. The US settles conflicts all over the world before they get out of control. Imagine if we had not stepped in when Iraq invaded Kuwait 12 years ago. Would there still be a Kuwait today? Not likely. The only thing that scares me more than Hussein is having someone like you as the head of anything remotly political. <hr></blockquote><p>Again, I'll let you retract your last sentence later. Your hostility shows why the US is where they are right now. You seem to think that wester civilization is the only way to live. I believe that the only reason why Tony Blair is so far in to this, is that he would like to get help from the US, as the IRA keep bombing places in the UK. The UK is a pretty civilized place but until 3 years ago bombings were an weekly occurence. I'm not saying that I'm cool with that. However, you need to understand that places in turmoil over religion, will do things by any means necessary. Blacks in the 60's developed this slogan, but failed to act on it, as we were a divided people, due to another important member preaching peace. 400 years later and we're still not the kings and queens that we were in Africa. A revolt could have and should have happened then and there would have been no US as you know it today. Thank you for going into a continent and placing black slaves as your servants and later on becoming some of the richest people in the world, on the backs of black people. As a country you didn't do it. But that is how the US was built. You stole people and turned them into slaves. You kicked a whole people off (Native Indians) of a land and made it yours. And for the longest while slavery was condoned. (off topic now, but cannot be shed from the books) Can you see the correlation here to what is going on today?
Anyhow my man, don't get mad at me. I didn't bitc# slap you. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> What the hell is with you guys and Bush? <hr></blockquote><p>Hey man this is the second Bush that has started a war with the same people. I was hoping that Ross Perot would have been elected cuz we would have been in the money right now. Your dollar is going down. I could say that's good for us in Canada, but a lot of people do business with the US so it ain't all good. Why wasn't there a war when Clinton was in power? <p>Again guys, I'm not mad at you. This is discussion. Mad love for all of you.<p>one

[992mmx3]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EBUCKS:
[QB]I actually really like politics and am considering running for a position in the future, in my area. Guys, I have nothing but love for you as you see on the bottom of all of my post I say "one", as 'one people'. I type it and don't put it in my sig, because I want to remember that.
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thats hella tight.<p>quote:
Whoa! Bin Laden was created to help the US spy on Russia as a malitia group during the cold war. He went to school in the US as well. Although not elected, he was put there.
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I have never even heard of anything like this, it was his choice to go to school hear, Amercia is open to anyone to come here and get educated, we never sent him to Russia to spy, where's the proof of this? Sources?<p>quote:
Big brother, mom, police, etc, same thing, no?
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again, you must remember, that this is U.N. policy were backing here, not American policy, Canada signed the agreement too, thats a fact.<p>quote:
Keep on thinking that. I revert to what Battsoi said about the Spanish government. Many governments being told to go along with it will do so, so as not to upset "big brother".
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Its not so much what I think, its a fact, what does Japan have to be pissed off with them?? The millions of dollars they make off of us? They are an independent country now, and an ally, I've never even heard of such a thing as Japan being angry at us, sounds more like a scare tactic.<p>quote:
Hey man this is the second Bush that has started a war with the same people. I was hoping that Ross Perot would have been elected cuz we would have been in the money right now. Your dollar is going down. I could say that's good for us in Canada, but a lot of people do business with the US so it ain't all good. Why wasn't there a war when Clinton was in power?
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Good point in the Bush thing, I was never a fan of Ross Perot though. As far as Clinton goes, well, lets just say he was too busy trying to chase down fat girls for a b.j. He was a joke, why would Saddam ever respect any U.N. resolution put forth by that man?<p>quote:
Again guys, I'm not mad at you. This is discussion. Mad love for all of you.
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glad you saw my first post, or was it the 4th,lol, whatever, good luck in running for political position, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders in that you do listen to others opinions and seem to care about integrity in the gov't in that, if you do it in one place, do it everywhere.

[992mmx3]

Also, just wanted to point out, not all the above quotes in E-bucks reply were from me.

[azmtbkr81]

I just want to say that it is pretty dope that we can all talk politics, it would be one boring a** board if we all had the same opinions. Hopefully no one's feelings are getting hurt because thats probably the point where we should all stop. I've been out all afternoon looking for a damn battery for my car, so I've missed out on all of this but now I want to jump back in...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Whoa! Bin Laden was created to help the US spy on Russia as a malitia group during the cold war. He went to school in the US as well. Although not elected, he was put there.
<hr></blockquote><p>I have heard this before, it is true, same with Saddam we supported him in the Iran-Iraq war, but I don't see how its relevant. Its kinda like Star Wars where Obi Wan trains Anakin and then Anakin goes to the dark side, it doesn't mean that just because Obi Wan trained Darth Vader that they can't be enemies.<p>I think its great that the US is letting this whole North Korea thing play out. North Korea is a threat to everyone, not just the US yet the rest of the world is demanding that WE do something, that WE solve the problem. One year ago South Korea was ready to kick all US troops out of their country, they would beat our soldiers in the street and spit on them and hold riots. I think its funny how now that North Korea isn't playing nice all of the demonstrations have stopped. South Koreans now want to send American soldiers that they once despised into battle to die for them. Bush has suggested that maybe we should just pull all our forces out of South Korea but we haven't because the South Koreans have begged us not to. What if we were to pull all of our troops out of S. Korea and S. Korea was subsequently anahillated by N. Korea, what would the world think of us then?<p>I think it is a horrible double standard that countries don't want us getting into their business but then when the sh*t hits the fan who do they call on for protection?<p>Ebucks you say that we should mind our own business and run our own country but as the world's only superpower don't you think we have a certain responsiblility to stop evil when we see it?<p>One of my favorite quotes is by Edmond Burke, an Irish philosopher: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" I seriously doubt that there would be many countries willing to step up to the likes of Slobodan Misoivich, Saddam Huessain, Manuel Noreaga, Kim Il Jung, and hundreds others evildoers in the world. Just look at the places where we have taken a stand: Somolia, Haiti, Kosovo, A***anistan. These places are the armpits of the world, they are war torn, battered resourceless countries and the one time we try to stop a dictator in a country that happens to have oil we are called greedy oil thirsy imperialists; what an insult! Maybe the US should tell other peace-loving countires that they should take a more acive role in stoping these maniacs but I have a feeling as evidenced by the impotence of the UN that many countries would tell us to go f*ck ourselves. <p>Because of this we have a dillema, do we sit by and let genocide and other atrocites take place or do we step in and do the right thing even if it might be unpopular with some? It would be so easy for us to pull in all our troops from all over the world, it would certainly save us billions and billions of dollars, but then who would protect the innnocent? France? Germany? Canada? I think not. If other countries took a more active role in helping to keep evil to a minimum the US would not have to be so involved in other people's business, but until that day comes we are going to stop atrocities when we see them because it is the right thing to do.

[johnnyb]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by azmtbkr81:
I just want to say that it is pretty dope that we can all talk politics, it would be one boring a** board if we all had the same opinions. <hr></blockquote><p>
I agree<p>its cool we can talk about important issues and not lower ourselves to name calling and harrassment unlike some boards i've seen.

[curtklze]

just some things I picked up from PBS, 60 minuites, and 20/20.<p>1)The US helped saddam(Iraq), gave him missles and sh1t to fight Iran(the US didnt like Iran at the time).<p>2) the US sent the CIA over to Afghanistan to train Bin ladden and AL-quida to fight Russia(russia was invading or had control or something) and the US didnt want russia in the area at that time) they gave them stinger rockets and guns n stuff. They even showed on CNN how the afghan rebels were using left over russian tanks to fight al-quida when the US attacked.<p>3)Isriale was created after WWII as a place for the Jewish people to live, after the war the whole area was messed up(asia, africa, and europe), all differnt countries were mixed up because of all the invasions that had taken place. so people had to re-draw the maps and re-define countries boundries. <p>Isriale is made up of some land from a few differnt countries, and I think all are mostly muslum, there was never any palistine, the only time people in the area started fighting for a free Palistine is after Isriale was created.<p>before Isriale, the areas claimed by palistine were all different parts of other countries, and as far as I know they werent trying to get freedom from those other countries untill after Isriale was crated.<p>Its like if a new state called "JOE" was created and half if the state was in north carolina and half was in south carolina,so you would have NC JOE and SC, then some of the people in JOE said "We want our land back and we are the people from BOB" well there was never any state called BOB Just NC and SC, where the hell did the state BOB come from?<p>4) I am a conspericy nut, I love to take all the info I get and come up with my own Ideas.
here is a good one.<p>Oil companies have the bigest lobbiests in the US(washington) .what they want, happens.<p>The price of oil was the cheapest ever in the late 1990's(after you factor inflation), not good for oil and gas companies, a war(or the threat of war) causes the price of oil to go up(more profit for oil and gas companies)<p>CIA helped AL-quida in the 80's, now its pay back time, Gorge bush(cant remember if it was SR. or JR.) was head of the CIA for a while, either way the CIA has control of GB JR.<p>GB JR. gets elected, even tho al gore has more of the popular vote(more votes), Hrrrmmm? <p>911 happens, hey, I thought al-quida was the CIA's friend, hrrmm?<p>GB JR gose to war in afganistan, most of the al-quida leaders get away,hrrmm?, you would think that the CIA would'nt let that happen, after what there old friends did.(crashed 4 planes)<p>now GB JR. says saddam is a bad guy, Im gonna get him too, people get scared, and my stock in PETRO CANADA goes UP $10.00 a share.<p>I say go to war, let them burn the oil fields.
I need to recover some of my money after that NORTEL belly flop. <p>[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: curtklze ]</p>

[blkmx3_v6]

You think this war is so Bush can be remembered? You really need to get out of the house more dood.<p>--------------------<p>~Ryan~<p>1. NO, The war in its entirety will not just be about remembrance. Nor will it just be about oil, terrorist groups or weapons of mass destruction. But if you believe that one can become president and not care about how their presidency is viewed in history…well, you have a lot of learning to do, dude.

[azmtbkr81]

You guys remember this one from Good Will Hunting...pretty funny and kinda applys to what we are "talking" about.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Will: Why shouldn't I work for the N.S.A.? That's a tough one, but I'll give it a shot. Say I'm working at N.S.A. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. So I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself, 'cause I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and fifteen hundred people I never had a problem with get killed. Now the politicians are sayin', "Send in the marines to secure the area" 'cause they don't give a ****. It won't be their kid over there, gettin' shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number was called, 'cause they were pullin' a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie takin' shrapnel in the *** . And he comes home to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his *** got his old job, 'cause he'll work for fifteen cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile my buddy from Southie realizes the only reason he was over there was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And of course the oil companies used the skirmish to scare up oil prices so they could turn a quick buck. A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't helping my buddy at two-fifty a gallon. And naturally they're takin' their sweet time bringin' the oil back, and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and play slalom with the icebergs, and it ain't too long 'til he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive, so he's got to walk to the job interviews, which sucks 'cause the schrapnel in his *** is givin' him chronic hemorroids. And meanwhile he's starvin' 'cause every time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate special they're servin' is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what do I think? I'm holdin' out for somethin' better. Why not just shoot my buddy, take his job and give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president
<hr></blockquote>

[johnnyb]

LOL<p>When you said GWH i remembered that speech. Its definately funny considering the circumstances of today.

[VizualXTC]

Yea I'm 100% sure that Bush told those fools to fly into the towers. Makes sense to me. <p>Not to sound like a jerk, but I will not retract any statement I have made. I stand by my word. You can percieve anything you want. You are holding George W Bush responsible for what his father did (which as I see it was nothing wrong). Let's start holding everyone responsible for what their parents or predecesors have done. Makes sense right? We have proved time and time again that we show compassion for foreign countries and citizens. Everywhere we have "bullied" we have rebuilt after the dust settled. We step in when we're needed. It's like I've said before and has been said by others. Wait till this hits a little closer to home, and see who you call up on the phone asking for support. Do you think then that the US will turn it's back on you because you don't agree with what we're doing? Definatly not. We'll send as many troops as needed, and we'll sacrafice as many American lives as needed to protect you and neitralize the situation. Just like if in 5 years, Saddam has disarmed and is showing signs of civilized behavior. If Iran decides that they want to invade, who do you think Iraq will call on for support? And do you think we'll turn them down? We gave Iraq bombs so that they could fight against a tyrant. We don't descriminate. We fight evil, and we fight agaist evildoers. We don't fight to gain anything except a peaceful place to rais our childeren, and a peaceful place for the rest of teh worlds population to raies theirs. You act as if we are trying to be "king of the schoolyard" asn we'll step on whoever's toes we need to to acomplish that. I will not retract my statements because I feel strogly about them. You bring up problems that existed in the past that have been resolved. I believe that slavery was abolished. I don't own any blacks. In fact I cant imagine anyone being able to sleep knowing they "own" someone else. You take the actions of one era and condemn the current generation. That in my opinion is dispicable and completely assinign. You talk about the US kicking the Native Americans out, but do you think that Canada was inhabited by "canadians" all the time? I believe that your ancestors were european just like ours. You talk about my hostility, and fail to reference your ignorance. You don't ask for facts because your mind has been closed to the posiblity that you may be wrong. You seem to think you know all the answers and know every existing problem with the US and the World. You didn't answer my question. Where will you stand when Canada decides to back the US? Will you still be as against it as you are now? Why or why not? <p>I only get heated when you take the actions of one or a few people and condemn others that had nothing to do with it. Oh, and I AM asking for facts. If you are going to attack an individual, group, state, or country, you better have the evidence to back it up. It's called tact. It's what America has and expresses. Let's see a little from you, huh?

[BATTOSAI]

It´s easy to say "Ok, do the war" when you´re not supposed to go to the battle field, it´s easy to say "ok, do the war" when the battle won´t be held next to your door, now imagine that for a moment, I doubt that many still get as convinced as before. Then, you would probably start thinking about searching for other ways of solving the problem.
Altough it´s funny to see the different point of view of George Bush´s actions that you have and the one that the media are selling here in Spain.
I´ll forget about this post, it can be very confrontational<p>[ March 15, 2003: Message edited by: BATTOSAI ]</p>

[VizualXTC]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BATTOSAI:
It´s easy to say "Ok, do the war" when you´re not supposed to go to the battle field, it´s easy to say "ok, do the war" when the battle won´t be held next to your door, now imagine that for a moment, I doubt that many still get as convinced as before. Then, you would probably start thinking about searching for other ways of solving the problem.
Altough it´s funny to see the different point of view of George Bush´s actions that you have and the one that the media are selling here in Spain.
I´ll forget about this post, it can be very confrontational<p>[ March 15, 2003: Message edited by: BATTOSAI ]<hr></blockquote><p>You're right. It's also easy to say "Don't go to war" when you have no threat of attacks on your soil. If you remember we were the ones that had the World Trade Center. Not Canada. Not Spain. The thing you guys don't understand is that if they git rid of the US (liake you all wish they would) they will start on another country, and another until they control the world. That is their mission. Not to get rid of the US, but to control the world. If we sit here and keep telling Saddam to disarm, he's eventually going to finish the bombs he's making and he's going to nuke the US. If he nuke's the US he's not only killing the US. The economy of EVERY nation will drop dramatically, and on a more immediate scale, the nuclear radiation will drift into Canada. If my geography is correct Toronto is above and west of New York. (which is the primary targed of the Al-Queda and Saddam) I see that a lot of you are in Toronto. This means you, and everyone you know and cara about is dead. Not a nice quick death, but prolly live months or even years with mutations and limbs falling off. That's a wonderful thing to protect. If we go to war in Iraq and on the Mediteranian sea (sp?) what do you think will happen? Do you think we'll miss Iraq and hit spain? Do you think the US will use nuclear and biological weapons? Um....what do you think we're fighting against? You and your family will be safe. I live a mile from one of the biggest air bases in the US. Me and my family will NOT be safe if they put a nuke down in the middle of it. Now, how can you tell me not to go fight to protect my family? If we go to war I am 100% sure that I will be in Afghanistan fighting along side the rest of the Americans that go. I am willing to give my life to protect millions of others. If I could go to Iraq and put a bullet in Saddam's forehead I would in a second. Like I said, if we DON"T go to war, and Saddam does take out the US then you, Ebucks, Johnny, and everyone else will come next. I am willing to give my life to save yours, and your family's. I am willing to give my life to save my family, and families of people I don't know and will never meet. It's not just patriotism that fuels my fire. It's the potential of millions of lives lost if I sit and do nothing. If the US didn't go to war, and they dropped a bomb on Sabadell, then I would be very upset. I concider you my friend, and I wouldn't want you to die. I am willing to do something about it. But you guys want me and the rest of the US to sit idle and let Saddam kill thousands and millions of people. Fat chance of that happening. I do respect your opinions, but in this case I believe it is wrong. One day you'll see that we're doing the right thing here. Until then, yuo can think whatever you want of Me or the US because we're gunna keep on fighting and keep on helping until the world is a place we're proud to live in.

[EBUCKS]

I'll attack you! In fact I already did. I was stopped by police again today and I remembered what I wrote yesterday, and I was listening to a talk show regarding Van Biesbrooks comments towards a black minor league hockey player.
The US was built on black people and you still spit on us years later and even today. That is ****@n fact, Ryan! However, when Isreal gets the s#it kicked out of them, as per the haulocaust you give them money and say poor them. That is a fact, Ryan! None of the countries in Africa received any payment for that, and that's a fact, Ryan! How do other people perceive this? How do you think, Ryan? I take the actions and condemn everyone who continues to act in this manner. For instance the 2 white officers that harrassed me this morning. The difficulties in finding a job due to my skin colour. You may not own any blacks, but we feel owned by your ignorance to the whole subject. My ancestors were not European. Have some respect, Ryan! I just live here. My family has lived here for 2 generations. Before that, my family was brought to the West Indies by Europeans, from Africa and my last name is Scottish. That's a fact, Ryan. Hey man, all I'm saying is that history is repeating itself, but maybe not in the same manor.<p>I am typing this and I'm a little upset with what happened to me this morning. Ryan, I mean no disrespect, or harm. I am not a black activist. Nor do I hate anybody. You may stand behind what you say. <p>one