under powered cars ( Mazda )

guyaverage · Post by **guyaverage** » September 19th, 2003, 4:42 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr> I don't care if they can even squeeze 500hp n/a they will still have 130lbs of torque. which means I have
to rev her up to 20000 rpms to get that 500 hp. <hr></blockquote>And the problem is......? <blockquote>quote:<hr> Have you ever wondered why they have never produced a factory Turbo car? the reason is that they cant come up with sufficient torque to minimize lag.<hr></blockquote>What? Where in the world do you get this? How much torque and engine produces has ZERO to do with how quickly its turbo spools up. Turbo size, exhaust velocity, exhaust backpressure, etc and several other variables are what determines spool-up rate. Engine torque does not drive a turbo. If you are trying to say their engines dont make enough torque down low to accelerate the car while revs build and the turbo spools, thats one thing. But if you meant exactly what you printed, you have LOTS to learn. <blockquote>quote:<hr> Any
turboed honda lives only at 6500 and up rpm. Below this and I could run faster. <hr></blockquote>Super. Next time you are at the track racing Hondas, tell them to keep their revs below 6500 so you can win. See how well THAT goes over.

Sean Mandell · Post by **Sean Mandell** » September 19th, 2003, 4:48 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by mx3TT:
I would love to see more rotaries. But you also have to think about the mechanics. Not a lot of people are trained to work on them which sucks. But that would be awesome to have a rotary miata.<hr></blockquote>Actually if your somewhat mechanically inclined you can easily learn how to work on them yourself. I found the rx7 bb's to be very informative as you tend to deal with a more mature age group.

mx3TT · Post by **mx3TT** » September 19th, 2003, 5:09 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by nvrsrndr:
Actually if your somewhat mechanically inclined you can easily learn how to work on them yourself. I found the rx7 bb's to be very informative as you tend to deal with a more mature age group. I like that.

Sean Mandell · Post by **Sean Mandell** » September 19th, 2003, 5:13 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by guyaverage:
Super. Next time you are at the track racing Hondas, tell them to keep their revs below 6500 so you can win. See how well THAT goes over. <hr></blockquote>nice one[ September 19, 2003: Message edited by: nvrsrndr ][ September 19, 2003: Message edited by: nvrsrndr ]

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » September 19th, 2003, 8:54 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by guyaverage:
And the problem is......?<hr></blockquote>There's a reason why engines have a redline, and its not thats its making too much power...

johnnyb · Post by **johnnyb** » September 19th, 2003, 9:58 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by guyaverage:
What? Where in the world do you get this? How much torque and engine produces has ZERO to do with how quickly its turbo spools up. Turbo size, exhaust velocity, exhaust backpressure, etc and several other variables are what determines spool-up rate. Engine torque does not drive a turbo. <hr></blockquote>Actually it does. If you have a crazy torque figure like 110 your car will be in lower revs longer and hence your turbo would take longer to spool because there is less exhaust pressure than it would need. If you think about it an NA car with 160 ft/lbs of torque would win because the turbo is useless due to the low torque and the car not reaching the proper RPM quick enough to spool.

OsoSlo z28 · Post by **OsoSlo z28** » September 19th, 2003, 10:09 pm

which is why turbo kits are taylored for specific applications.

phr34k · Post by **phr34k** » September 20th, 2003, 2:20 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr> There are rumors that the miata will come with a rotary soon and if mazda wants to build a fwd sport coupe then I don't see why they wouldn't throw a rotary in there. Mazda would love to have all of there cars runnin rotaries but they have to accomodate these crazy smog standards first.<hr></blockquote>this is true they are coming out with a 'rx-5' which is going to be n/a if i am correct. There will probably be enough room for a large single turbo but not the twin engine.

greatunicon · Post by **greatunicon** » September 20th, 2003, 5:21 pm

Mazda made powerful car too, but they don't ship out of Japan... sadly only in Japan and asia (Cosmo is a sport sedan, it is 3 rotory tubro)
Japan government limited all car should produced under 280Hp in Japan, with ECU mod and etc, it would run up to 500hp.Mazda is not under power, because i have never seen onece in N.Amercia, (damn emission, and gas quality)[ September 20, 2003: Message edited by: greatunicon ]

VizualXTC · Post by **VizualXTC** » September 20th, 2003, 7:57 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by cre8v mx3:
it's a shame you have to compare v6's to 4cyls <hr></blockquote>except we're talking about POWER not number of cylindars. Also, my post was more toward price for mods. Like I said in my previous post, you can get substantial gains from a honda engine, but it's gunna cost you a small fortune to do so. I read about this guy that's got 320HP in his D16 engine, and has spent over $10K. Hmm....I'm sure you could get 320HP in your car for under $10,000 don't you think?? :sigh: poor unfortunate souls

guyaverage · Post by **guyaverage** » September 22nd, 2003, 10:32 am

There's a reason why engines have a redline, and its not thats its making too much power...

In a car that has an 8000+ redline, reving the engine that high is not a problem. The valvetrain was designed and timed for it. Saying an engine is weak because it has to be rev'd to get power is a weak argument, especially in this cas, because the engine was designed for it right from the factory.

And some cars do redline based on power. The 2nd gen Rx7 automatics even shift well below redline, to maximize transmission life. A lot of factors go into why a manufacturer posts a redline at a certain rpm. Efficiency, engine life, rod strength, crankshaft strength, transmission limitations, harmonic vibrations, etc. Simply ragging on an engine and calling it weak because it develops its power in the high range, especially since it was built for it, is crap.

"Torque does not drive a turbo." Actually it does. If you have a crazy torque figure like 110 your car will be in lower revs longer and hence your turbo would take longer to spool because there is less exhaust pressure than it would need.

I said something to that effect in my next unquoted sentence in the post. But the way he said it was completely wrong. He said they never came out with a factory turbo car because they "couldnt come up with sufficient torque to minimize lag". A fourteen year old who knows anything about cars could figure out a physically small turbo with a well designed inlet would spool up plenty fast enough to build boost at the lower rpms. Its not like Honda "couldnt figure it out".

mx3TT · Post by **mx3TT** » September 22nd, 2003, 8:21 pm

I think its time to put this thread to rest. We are going in cirlces here people.

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » September 23rd, 2003, 12:16 am

Originally posted by guyaverage:
In a car that has an 8000+ redline, reving the engine that high is not a problem. The valvetrain was designed and timed for it. Saying an engine is weak because it has to be rev'd to get power is a weak argument, especially in this cas, because the engine was designed for it right from the factory.

Cool i didnt realise that there were some circomstances where it was power related, but it doesnt surprice me that its in an Rx-7. My reply was towards guyaverage

Originally posted by nvrsrndr:
I don't care if they can even squeeze 500hp n/a they will still have 130lbs of torque. which means I have to rev her up to 20000 rpms to get that 500 hp.

Originally posted by guyaverage:
And the problem is......?

Originally posted by Nd4SpdSe:
There's a reason why engines have a redline, (i should have ended it here) and its not thats its making too much power...

guyaverage was talking like reving wasn't a big deal. Guess he's not familiar with physics

guyaverage · Post by **guyaverage** » September 23rd, 2003, 8:05 am

guyaverage was talking like reving wasn't a big deal. Guess he's not familiar with physics

Well, Einstein, feel free to stop making general comments about revs and redlines, and please fill the rest of us uneducated nitwits in on your vast knowledge. And do it fast, I have a few dozen F-16 engines going out in a few days and the buyer needs to know the person building them has no idea what he is doing.

Ya want fries with that?

Sonicxtacy02 · Post by **Sonicxtacy02** » September 23rd, 2003, 10:30 am

Originally posted by guyaverage:

guyaverage was talking like reving wasn't a big deal. Guess he's not familiar with physics
Well, Einstein, feel free to stop making general comments about revs and redlines, and please fill the rest of us uneducated nitwits in on your vast knowledge. And do it fast, I have a few dozen F-16 engines going out in a few days and the buyer needs to know the person building them has no idea what he is doing.

Ya want fries with that?

Tell the buyer to think twice on the F-16 engines and go for some Apollo rockets...

More Torque

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