which way to go on new engine?

[JeffB]

First of all, thanks for being here: As a brand-new MX-3 owner (a '92 GS stick) with little know-how on cars, I am thrilled to have this resource.

My car may well need a new engine, and I know that there's a temptation to go with something bigger than the K8, but I've never felt the need for tremendous power and like the mpg. So I'm thinking of saving money and gas and sticking with the 1.8L, unless someone wants to make a persuasive argument for another.

And as I look for sources for the new engine, I see a fair variety of prices. Tiger, in Canada, seems to have some for $350 plus shipping (about 190 to me in Virginia); has anyone dealt with them?

Finally -- if I can afford -- what upgrades/mods would I be foolish not to do while the engine is being replaced?

Many thanks.

[Daninski]

Unless your into getting screwed stay away from TigerJapanese. Montreal has a couple of good JDM Dealers. Most here will probably say KLZE unless you can find a low mileage KLDE but one way or the other it's your car so you can do as you see fit. Now how about an introductory post, tell us a little about your self and where your from. Likes dislikes etc.

[RobMinhas]

Welcome.

What exactly is wrong with your cars engine?


And there are three basic K series engine swaps you could do, KF-ZE, KL-DE and KL-ZE, which are 2.0L, 2.5L and 2.5L, respectively. A lot of folks have reported good(sometimes better) gas mileage after doing the swaps. All three of these engines make more pow but the KL engines are also made for cars heavier then an MX3. This would explain the increase in gas mileage since the engine doesn't have to work so hard due to less weight.


If pulling your engine, waterpump and timing kit is greatly recommended. These K series engines come with these stupid hydraulic tensioners that like to fail and strand you. It's also a heck of a lot easier to do this when the engines out. Having retimed K8s both in and out of cars the amount of hassle and annoyance doing it in the engine bay causes almost justifies pulling the motor. I would not recommend skipping these two maintenance items.

[JeffB]

I'm Jeff, and I live in Virginia near Washington, D.C. As I said in my first post, I don't have much car know-how, following in the footsteps of my dad, who had none. (He was a lousy driver, too, which we blamed on his having learned on a tank, in World War II.) At 58, I've owned an odd assortment that I could buy used inexpensively, generally with a stick: a couple of Datsuns, an Accord, a Mazda 323, and lately a succession of well-used Saabs.
It was my car-hungry daughter, now 18, who got me looking more at cars, and one day on the way to work I noticed an unusual one: the MX-3. I liked the odd styling and what I learned about the model. (My daughter didn't much like the looks of it, but she's away at college now, and in any case she doesn't have to drive it.) When I had a little money to spare, I found a GS with low mileage and in good shape except for the owner's faulty replacement of the timing belt. The resulting damage might or might not mean a new engine; I had the car towed to the garage, and I'll find out today.
As for other work, I plan to touch up the worn spots on the paint but don't expect to bring it to showroom condition. (I'm afraid it will be subject to the elements, as we have neither garage nor driveway.) I'm tempted by the leather seats I saw posted on this site, as the cloth seats have a couple of rips, but I don't expect to make a lot of mods; at the moment it's a strictly stock GS.
I commute to work by Metro, so I'll probably drive the car just a few times a week; my wife might use it, too, but her commute is no more than five miles. So I'm hoping to keep it and enjoy it for many years to come. And my daughter can earn her way to the car she wants.

[SuperK]

Good news, Jeff! If the timing belt is installed wrong, no damage will be done to the engine. but having a shop replace the timing belt is costly, so get out your wallet!

Look over how much you want to spend first, that will decide what route you want to take.

The K8 (your 1.8l) is easy to keep a'knockin' with regular maintenance.

To do a proper engine swap...
You are going to want to consider longevity/reliability as well.
If you end up with an imported engine, a proper 2.5l with low mileage, you may be OK with dropping it in and go.

If you purchase a domestic engine, it'll be high mileage, and you'll be spending $$$ on a full rebuild, otherwise it's not worth replacing a tired engine... with another tired engine.

You'll also want to swap your transmission to a longer geared transmission (mx-6, 626) for better mpgs and driving experience.

A good 2.5l engine with a better transmission will get ya better MPGs than your current K8 1.8l. And also a whole lot more smiles.

I would vouch for getting your current K8 running as affordably as possible. if the timing is off, re-time it, make sure the distributor works and drive it. Just get it driving.

If it costs a lot of $$$$$ to get that current engine running reliably, drive that little guy to SuperK's ol' garage in TN, and he'll put in a good working K8 for a couple hundred dollars, or swap you to a 2.5l if you find a good deal on an engine (and transmission, if you can swing it) over the weekend and send you back on your way.

Enjoy!

[JeffB]

SuperK, that's reassuring. And your suggestion of a trip to Chattanooga is tempting: I've never been, and it's just an eight-hour drive -- no doubt less on the way back with the new engine.

We'll see what the verdict is on the old engine and the price of the repair.

[Daninski]

All you need is a place and some tools and we can guild you through any work you'd like to tackle. SuperK knows his stuff and could easily help you out just ignore the gaunt looking corpses in the dilapidated locked bus in his back yard. Those are his relatives that didn't pay up for past automotive work done by him.

[Josh]

^^

[SuperK]

Also ignore the gravestone in my back yard too. I promise it was there when I bought my house.

[JeffB]

Looks like I can put off the trip to Chattanooga after all: The engine survived the incompetence of the original owner (or his buddy, apparently) in installing the timing belt. The mechanic also found plenty of other evidence of slipshod repairs -- missing bolts and the like. So I should be able to enjoy my K8 for many miles, or until I'm inspired to swap for something bigger.

And I'm sure I'll turn to the collective wisdom of the forums for guidance again.

-jB

[JeffB]

First, an update: The mechanic who said the original K8 would be usable was wrong. So now I have a fundamental choice: Replace with a low-mileage K8 ($450) or buy a KL-ZE plus the manual transmission (much more). I know that the consensus here is to make the KL swap, and the only reasons I hesitate are the cost and the iffy things I read about KL engines. The nearest JDM dealer, in fact (Phillip Baghdassarian of Japanese Engine Import in Manassas, Va.), says he hesitates to carry them because of an oil delivery problem: "I don't see a lot of the KL engines in great shape nowadays."
So: How and where do I shop for a KL engine plus manual transmission? Has anyone bought one lately, and what will it run me?

[mx3_ryder]

You can use your current 5 spd. tranny for the swap, so that'll save ya some bang right there.
KLZE's online can be had for between $800.00-$1200.00. I purchased mine from these guys http://www.jdmenginescorp.com/engine_de ... ngine-onlyand were great to work with, even took the time to pull valve cover and take pictures for me. Engine was received in immaculate condition!! Super clean and indeed low miles!! You could also source an inexpensive KL or G4 from a salvage yard and rebuild it.

[JeffB]

I'd seen a favorable mention of those guys in Texas. Thanks for the recommendation.
But as for the transmission: Isn't there a benefit in swapping out that as well, since the longer gear ratios are designed for the bigger engine?
And am I right in thinking I should look for the curved neck rather than the straight?

[mx3_ryder]

I'd seen a favorable mention of those guys in Texas. Thanks for the recommendation.
But as for the transmission: Isn't there a benefit in swapping out that as well, since the longer gear ratios are designed for the bigger engine?
And am I right in thinking I should look for the curved neck rather than the straight?

The benefit of swapping transmissions would be having taller final drive, but I personally like the shorter ratio and find it to be a lot of fun when mated to the 2.5L. Curve neck engine would have KL01 cams where as straight neck comes with KL31 cams. If you are not up to fitting the straight neck in as there are mods needed to do so, then you'd have to source a curve neck manifold and TB anyways. Only benefit for buying straight neck would be having the Kl31 cams.

[SuperK]

Oil delivery problem only happens when you're high-revving them over 8k RPM.
One of the Atlanta MX-3 club members tracked his car for over seven years on his KL engine and it never skipped a beat.
For a daily driver engine, it's very hardy.
You don't have to go "all-out" on a swap. You can skimp on certain things. Transmission for example.

Thing is, the price of a swap isn't just the cumulative price of the engine.
Keep in mind costs of accessories.
For example, you'll need to get some aftermarket headers. That means you'll need to have some exhaust work done.
If the importer doesn't supply the proper ECU, you'll need to source a suitable replacement.
When you start removing the engine, you'll notice more items that need attention. Engine mounts that may be rotted (dealer-only part on some of them) or cracked in half, EGR replacement if you decide you want to use an EGR valve can be tricky and $$ if you don't have the right parts.
The intake manifold you'll want to swap out for easy mounting.

The best approach in my opinion is look how much you're willing to budget. If your budget is 1500 and you spent 1000 on the engine, you may pass your price point.

Whatever you do, don't spend large cash on a K8 engine. They're bound to be needing a rebuild. I wouldn't pay more than 150 on an engine as it may cost an additional 500 for a rebuild.

I am still curious as to what your engine is doing that is failing. Maybe we can help remedy the current issue you're having without swapping the engine.

Anyways, my offer still stands if you want to "do it yourself," KL or K8, the garage is open