Recession or not?

[mitmaks]

Do you actually believe there is "recession" in this country? Or its just a big scam so that big corporations/companies don't have to pay better wages to their employees?
If there's recession how do you explain people buying 40-50K vehicles, RV's, toys.
Sure it's not as good as it used to be 10-15 years ago (under Clinton) but I don't think its as bad as they're trying to make it look like.

[RobMinhas]

Wrong country here, but in 2008 the Sawmill my dad worked at shut down due to teh "recession", it only opened in this october. Over 1000 jobs were lost just from that one mill, and we lost about 30 percent of our population because of how many people had to move away to find jobs.

Sure as hell felt like a recession to me.

[Daninski]

The Rich are taking everything as we speak. No middle class and no lower class. Just working class with no benefits and no pension. No disposable income and no self respect. It's happening right now, right in front of us but people seem almost blind. To interested in the Big Screen TV's comin on sale with no money down, don't pay for 16 months . Even if people wake up right now it's probably already too late. 80 years of progress down the shitter.

[MrMazda92]

Dan hit the nail on the head...

In 2008, I had a full time job, and didn't have to work hard to replace it with a better one. In 2009 that was a little harder...

2010 came around, and I worked my a-- off to find 3 part time, crappy, unpredictable shift POS jobs. I made less money at 60 hours than I had at 40 in 2009.

2011 was a nightmare and a half, I had one part time job throughout the year, and only survived by the grace of my family and ex girlfriend.

This year? I'm working odd jobs, enjoying blessedly free rent, and trying to save while the military screws me over for the third year in a row. I start a new, full time job the monday after next, paying less than I made in 2009.

I've got plenty of job experience, a college education, and family connections up the a--. I'm still struggling to find more than 15 hours a week, at any job in Eugene/Springfield area... The jobs exist, but every single business can afford to be picky. Why take the guy who got a 3.5 GPA in college, when you've got a 4.0 student with a Masters?

If you don't know someone in management, you damn well better be so overqualified for the job that they'd be fired if they passed you up. That's employment in Eugene...

[wytbishop]

I think it comes down to the basic supply & demand priniciple. Right now, there are generally more people than jobs...or more accurately, there are more unemployed people than usual and the ones looking for jobs are looking for better jobs than the ones that are available.

There's a whole trickle down, cycle effect. Commodities like houses, cars, etc. have less value so companies are making less money, as a result they are contracting the workforce (in some places) or just not able to pay what they used to, so people have less money to spend, so they spend less money, which further reduces the value of the commoditites. People aren't buying stuff so they have to reduce prices to try to sell it.

Here in Alberta the oil industry is booming again. The world is asking for more oil, so the price goes up, so companies hire more workers and start more projects, so people have more money, so they spend more money, so the cost of things like cars and housing go up. The average price of a house in Edmonton is $440k this year. That's average...like 3 bedroom bungalow built in 1971. Anything nice is $500k and up...and they can't build them fast enough.

The recession in Canada was worst in Ontario where they are really dependant on the auto manufacturing industry (based on things I've read...), but overall Canada's recession is over. The big picture thing was the mortgage lending practices that were going on in 08'-09'. People were being lent money that they couldn't hope to afford to pay back. Banks didn't care because the money was insured by the federal gov't, but pretty soon so many houses were being defualted on, and the federal gov't was repaying the banks so much insurance money that the big mortgage holding banks needed billions in assistance. The Canadian gov't saw this coming and tightened up mortgage lending requirements significantly a couple of years ago.

There is a recession in the US. It's not a conspiracy...at least not the one you might think it is.

[Daninski]

Bottom line is Free Trade screwed the Canadian and US worker and anyone who tells you other wise is either a fool or works for corporate. Why do you think so many dollar stores and don't pay for 12-24 month stores are now common place here in Canada. To give us the illusion that we are still ok. YOUR NOT! Your screwed, the corporations have it all and soon they'll have what ever pittance you have left as well. I'm taking my Canada Pension as soon as I can while it's still there. Funny, that bail out in the USA was a total scam and America bought into it hook line and sinker. I guess all in all you get what you deserve for believing in fairy tales like this being the land of opportunity. Ya the opportunity to make minimum wage with no benefits and no pension. Just one person dare say some thing stupid about the unions and I swear I'll tear you a new A hole. Just look into the history of the American garment workers and maybe that will be a wake up call for you. Roll the youtube film. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

[mitmaks]

I'm a factory worker, I know everything about being screwed. I pay for our managers's Corvettes and other toys they have.

[wagZE]

Big corporate places are evil. I am self employed now &a its great. Buy cars fix cars sell cars, work on other people's cars. People don't have want to pay retail anymore, god bless craigslist i love it.

[Nd4SpdSe]

The Rich are taking everything as we speak. No middle class and no lower class. Just working class with no benefits and no pension. No disposable income and no self respect. It's happening right now, right in front of us but people seem almost blind. To interested in the Big Screen TV's comin on sale with no money down, don't pay for 16 months . Even if people wake up right now it's probably already too late. 80 years of progress down the shitter.

I agree

The big picture thing was the mortgage lending practices that were going on in 08'-09'. People were being lent money that they couldn't hope to afford to pay back. Banks didn't care because the money was insured by the federal gov't, but pretty soon so many houses were being defualted on, and the federal gov't was repaying the banks so much insurance money that the big mortgage holding banks needed billions in assistance. The Canadian gov't saw this coming and tightened up mortgage lending requirements significantly a couple of years ago.

Interest rates are still rock bottom, and they can't sit like that forever. Lending requirements did change, but I've got a people many people, maybe too many people, will get a take up call when that changes. I want to say we're doing OK in Canada, but stretched a bit thin, especially with gas prices being too high in most of the country (currently $1.26/L in Ontario while you damn Albertans are under the $1 when I left on Friday, and Quebec is up at $1.34 according and I'll be back there Sunday). If we survive the interest rates going back up (when they do), than we'll be ok in Canada.

Dan hit the nail on the head...

I know what you mean. In early 2008 I had taken a chance and took a contract job working on medical equipment. Loved the job and was making great money. By the end of 2009, they started to deny me any opertunies presented to continue and by spring of 2010, I was out of work. I spent several months unemployed and eventually found a few min wage jobs to keep my head above the water. The market was saturated, I got almost no responces in any jobs I applied for, and one offer where they low-balled me, I turned it down stated I was insulted with the offer, the owner of the company personally walking me out. I felt a bit bad, and a bit proud of that, but I had found out recently that my cousin got a job talking phone calls for Nestley (the 1-800 number on their products) just to talk on the phone, dealing with comments and complaints, for $2 more an hour. I've spent the last almost 3 years in the army, waiting it out and the military experience should yield a positive advantage back in the civilian world. A little over a year left, but I'm seeing options opening up, things are encouraging. A year ago, I felt that the world wasn't ready for me to come back to the civilian side. Today I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully come March, or pending deployment, I'll be working on my "escape plan".

Big corporate places are evil.

Yes they are. The recent Hostess issue is a good example of that
http://americablog.com/2012/11/hostess- ... alary.html

Some unsecured creditors had informed the court that last summer — as the company was crumbling — four top Hostess executives received raises of up to 80%.

Over the past eight years since the first Hostess bankruptcy, BCTGM members have watched as money from previous concessions that was supposed to go towards capital investment, product development, plant improvement and new equipment, was squandered in executive bonuses, payouts to Wall Street investors and payments to high-priced attorneys and consultants. [...] Over the past 15 months, Hostess workers have seen the company unilaterally end contractually-obligated payments to their pension plan.

[fowljesse]

I have always made my money on others' excess. People don't hire acrobats, ride bike rikshaws, buy high end vintage clothes, etc.. when they are broke, so I feel the economy in real time. It's not good right now, but it's getting better. I thank God that Obama was re-elected. I would have to work extremely hard if he didn't. I always enjoy what I do, and am looking forward to the economic improvement that's happening.
However, I have no illusion about the separation of classes in this country. It will continue.

[wytbishop]

The rest of the world gave a collective head shake at how close Romney came to getting elected. ~facepalm~

Someone really needs to sit you all down and explain the difference between Communism and Socialism and why Socialism is soooooo much better than pure Capitalism. Pure Capitalism doesn't work and the US is proving it.

[fowljesse]

Someone needs to sit them down and euthanize them. Well, maybe that's too harsh. Here's a fun idea for Youtube:
Line up everyone who voted Romney.. maybe tell them that they won the lottery, and that they have to stand in line to claim it (If it's on FOX news, they'll believe it!). Then, drive by with an arm extended out the window, and do the world's longest continued 3 Stooges style face slap at maybe 35mph. It would hurt the hand after a while, but would be the good kind of hurt.
Idiocracy has begun it's exponential rise

[mitmaks]

The rest of the world gave a collective head shake at how close Romney came to getting elected. ~facepalm~

Someone really needs to sit you all down and explain the difference between Communism and Socialism and why Socialism is soooooo much better than pure Capitalism. Pure Capitalism doesn't work and the US is proving it.

I think you're onto something here...

[mitmaks]

Someone needs to sit them down and euthanize them. Well, maybe that's too harsh. Here's a fun idea for Youtube:
Line up everyone who voted Romney.. maybe tell them that they won the lottery, and that they have to stand in line to claim it (If it's on FOX news, they'll believe it!). Then, drive by with an arm extended out the window, and do the world's longest continued 3 Stooges style face slap at maybe 35mph. It would hurt the hand after a while, but would be the good kind of hurt.
Idiocracy has begun it's exponential rise

Jesse let's not turn this into political thread. It doesn't matter who voted Obama/Romney.
I just wonder how come average worker like myself gets shafted. I still would be making crappy wages no matter who's in the office. It would be nice if someone would make it better for average worker and made companies pay better wages to workers.
In the end I'm thankful for my job, after all I'm able to pay my (ridiculously expensive) mortgage, buy parts for my cars and survive in this mess we're all part of.

[fowljesse]

That's fine. However, you did mention Clinton in the original post