Charlie's no budget mid engine build: *Codename:BlakBishop*
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build
Are there provisions for that differential to be upside down? I would imagine that it would need to be kept covered in fluid to stay cool, if not thats a pretty spiffy idea.
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I modify my ride so I can drive around the stupid people
93 GS red (wrecked)
I modify my ride so I can drive around the stupid people
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build
The ring gear is specifically designed to be mounted on either side of the diff so that it can be used for either mid engine or rear engine applications.
In the pic of the actually tranny I posted earlier in the thread the diff is inverted for a Ford GT40. Albins even makes inverted bellhousings for Ford and GM engines that use the factory starters.
In the pic of the actually tranny I posted earlier in the thread the diff is inverted for a Ford GT40. Albins even makes inverted bellhousings for Ford and GM engines that use the factory starters.
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
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93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
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Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
- ethand
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build
Wow, Charlie, I've just caught up on this again - you're really putting in the hard yards! Such awesome work, stoked to see you've kept at it & are applying all the research you've done. Awesome stuff.
'92 JDM Eunos Presso - Zeke
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build
Thanks Ethan.
As often happens to me as soon as I posted my ideas for the rear subframe it occurred to me that many things were wrong with it. Total redesign is almost complete and I should have something to post tonight.
As often happens to me as soon as I posted my ideas for the rear subframe it occurred to me that many things were wrong with it. Total redesign is almost complete and I should have something to post tonight.
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
- Nd4SpdSe
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build
1992 Mazda Mx-3 GSR - 2.5L KLZE : Award Winning Show Car & Race Car ['02-'09] (Retired)
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
2003 Nissan Xterra SE - 4x4 Supercharged : 2" Body Lift, 4" Suspension Lift & 33" MTR Kevlar
2001 Nissan Frontier SE - The Frontrailer : Expedition/Off-Road Trailer Project
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
2003 Nissan Xterra SE - 4x4 Supercharged : 2" Body Lift, 4" Suspension Lift & 33" MTR Kevlar
2001 Nissan Frontier SE - The Frontrailer : Expedition/Off-Road Trailer Project
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build
I have copies of the chassis and suspension chapters on my desktop. You will notice a likeness when you see the latest pictures. My control arms will be a sort of hybrid of the Pagani Zonda design and the Kirkham car's design.Nd4SpdSe wrote:http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/galle ... assis-book
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
- ethand
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build
Any updates, Charlie?! (sorry, just getting excited about this again! Hehe)
'92 JDM Eunos Presso - Zeke
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build
I have been spending a lot of time (like over 400 hours now) modeling the rear subframe. Totally new design from what I posted previously.
It starts with a 2 piece adaptor system in which the adaptor plate also acts as the mounting point for the framework of the subframe.
The upper control arms have the actuator cams for the shocks mounted directly on them so there is no push rod.
The rear mounting plate ties the tubular subframe together and will eventually be the mounting point for the rear fascia.
I still have to model the lower control arms and the base anchor for the shocks. The model in this image is very rough. The first step is just to determine where everything will go and the general position of things. Then I take the model apart and reproduce every part with accuracy. I'm in the middle of that process now.
At this point the suspension geometry is only rough as well. I'm trying to get a wheel motion ratio of about 1:1 and a wheel rate appropriate for a very lightweight, high horsepower, street going car.
It starts with a 2 piece adaptor system in which the adaptor plate also acts as the mounting point for the framework of the subframe.
The upper control arms have the actuator cams for the shocks mounted directly on them so there is no push rod.
The rear mounting plate ties the tubular subframe together and will eventually be the mounting point for the rear fascia.
I still have to model the lower control arms and the base anchor for the shocks. The model in this image is very rough. The first step is just to determine where everything will go and the general position of things. Then I take the model apart and reproduce every part with accuracy. I'm in the middle of that process now.
At this point the suspension geometry is only rough as well. I'm trying to get a wheel motion ratio of about 1:1 and a wheel rate appropriate for a very lightweight, high horsepower, street going car.
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build
Hey everyone, a little update. I have been working on modeling the rear subframe and suspension for about 4 months now. I believe I now have a concept that will work.
The bellhousing and engine adaptor plate have not changed...
Here is the basic subframe with all the control arm mounts...
Here is the finished upper control arm...
And lower control arm...
This is the shock mounting member which traverses the subframe overtop the gearbox. This provides a mount for the shocks and also significantly stiffens the subframe...
The hardest part so far has been identifying the pivot point of the rear toe link. I assembled the suspension and moved the upright through it's full travel plotting the position of the outer rod end at multiple points. Then I drew a curve in 3D space that corresponds to those points and found the center point of that curve.
That is the position of the inner tie rod end. From there I modeled a mount for it, which again adds stiffness to the subframe and a tie rod to link the upright to the frame and I get this...
...at ride height...
...at full sag...
...and at full bump...
So that's where I am at the moment. I will have to put together an anti-sway bar of some kind. I'm kicking around a couple of designs in my head. I will need motor mounts but if I were ever to actually build this thing I would design them in place anyway so I'm not going to model them.
Now I will start on the front in the new year.
The bellhousing and engine adaptor plate have not changed...
Here is the basic subframe with all the control arm mounts...
Here is the finished upper control arm...
And lower control arm...
This is the shock mounting member which traverses the subframe overtop the gearbox. This provides a mount for the shocks and also significantly stiffens the subframe...
The hardest part so far has been identifying the pivot point of the rear toe link. I assembled the suspension and moved the upright through it's full travel plotting the position of the outer rod end at multiple points. Then I drew a curve in 3D space that corresponds to those points and found the center point of that curve.
That is the position of the inner tie rod end. From there I modeled a mount for it, which again adds stiffness to the subframe and a tie rod to link the upright to the frame and I get this...
...at ride height...
...at full sag...
...and at full bump...
So that's where I am at the moment. I will have to put together an anti-sway bar of some kind. I'm kicking around a couple of designs in my head. I will need motor mounts but if I were ever to actually build this thing I would design them in place anyway so I'm not going to model them.
Now I will start on the front in the new year.
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
- Evo_Spec
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build: *Codename:BlakBish
awesome work man!
- kulluminati777
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build: *Codename:BlakBish
Very cool work!
I see you have wytbushings in the control arms lol j/p
I see you have wytbushings in the control arms lol j/p
- Nd4SpdSe
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build: *Codename:BlakBish
With that rear suspension setup, it look like you could design a rear-steering setup, or if you could incorporate a type of passive system like the Mx3/Rx7 did
1992 Mazda Mx-3 GSR - 2.5L KLZE : Award Winning Show Car & Race Car ['02-'09] (Retired)
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
2003 Nissan Xterra SE - 4x4 Supercharged : 2" Body Lift, 4" Suspension Lift & 33" MTR Kevlar
2001 Nissan Frontier SE - The Frontrailer : Expedition/Off-Road Trailer Project
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
2003 Nissan Xterra SE - 4x4 Supercharged : 2" Body Lift, 4" Suspension Lift & 33" MTR Kevlar
2001 Nissan Frontier SE - The Frontrailer : Expedition/Off-Road Trailer Project
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build: *Codename:BlakBish
Thanks!Evo_Spec wrote:awesome work man!
The best part of the Vette suspension is there are limitless options in the aftermarket. I don't have to design bushings. Lots of people have already done it.kulluminati777 wrote:Very cool work!
I see you have wytbushings in the control arms lol j/p
I think part of why GM used the same spindles front and rear is to take advantage of the small unavoidable Caster and Toe-In gain that you get from a set up like this. When the outside wheel is compressed it naturally toe's either out or in depending on how you adjust the toe link and where the pivot is located. The way I have it set in these views, it is slightly toed in at ride height and becomes almost perfectly neutral at full bump. Down the road I plan to purchase the Suspension Analyzer software and fine tune things a bit.Nd4SpdSe wrote:With that rear suspension setup, it look like you could design a rear-steering setup, or if you could incorporate a type of passive system like the Mx3/Rx7 did
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build: *Codename:BlakBish
Great work Charlie. I was a little concerned about one aspect of your design. With the considerable forces acting to pull the wheel forward during acceleration or aft while braking would additional strength as seen in the below pic's double longitudinal support bars be a consideration?
Again, nice to see some progress. Cheers and Happy New Year.
Again, nice to see some progress. Cheers and Happy New Year.
2004 Subaru WRX Silver, stage 2, minty interior.
2002 Subaru WRX Blue, SOLD (best E test numbers I've ever seen)
94 MX-6. Sold
92 GS KLZE 5 Speed
96 GS 5 speed, KLZE, Sold
95 GS Minty Shape Sold
92 GS Sold
92 GS Parts Car scrapped.
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2002 Subaru WRX Blue, SOLD (best E test numbers I've ever seen)
94 MX-6. Sold
92 GS KLZE 5 Speed
96 GS 5 speed, KLZE, Sold
95 GS Minty Shape Sold
92 GS Sold
92 GS Parts Car scrapped.
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7477th member.
I know you believe that you understand what you think I said but I'm sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
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Re: Charlie's no budget mid engine build: *Codename:BlakBish
Notice that the design you posted doesn't use wishbone control arms, but each link has a single pivot point on a spherical heim joint. My design uses A-Arms.Daninski wrote:With the considerable forces acting to pull the wheel forward during acceleration or aft while braking would additional strength as seen in the below pic's double longitudinal support bars be a consideration?
The forces fore and aft are absorbed by the bushings. The better the bushings, the less the control arm moves.
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.