[wtb] Used turbo stuff avail for B6DE MX-3 1.6 RS base

[specialtyneed]

Wanted to buy smallish available turbo (prefer entire setup, manifold, down pipe, etc inc BOV) but intercooler and piping NOT required) for my 1994 MX-3 RS base model 1.6L DOHC BDDE with manual trans. I am willing to take one with problems if all disclosed and am able to rebuild one if the price reflects condition and description of problems or condition issues and pictures are thorough. I will take a donor also as I have a friend with 4 Subaru turbos with coolant lines I can get very cheap or trade other one since he is into many other things just have to fabricate a lot of stuff which I do not mind. However just would be nice to get ready to bolt of setup that looks like it belongs on the car. This link http://www.gamesbbs.com/~turbosi/junkya ... _list.html is dead for the junk yard turbo car list and keeps timing out. any one have the junk yard list for these turbos?

PM me, Shoot me what you have I will consider it.

Please post and straighten me out if I omitted or mis-stated anything here.

Thanks in advance,
Shaun

[Josh]

those ebay turbos have issues. try to find a B6T setup off of a 323. Manifold and IHI VJ14 is a perfect turbo for the B6-DE. Injectors too if you can. I have a stock BOV i will sell its off of a ford probe but works great. I do have injectors as well. you might want to check club protege and some of the 323 forums for the turbo.

[RobMinhas]

those ebay turbos have issues. try to find a B6T setup off of a 323. Manifold and IHI VJ14 is a perfect turbo for the B6-DE. Injectors too if you can. I have a stock BOV i will sell its off of a ford probe but works great. I do have injectors as well. you might want to check club protege and some of the 323 forums for the turbo.

I don't know how it is in the States but I've only ever seen one 323/protege GT with a B6t, form what I understand they're extremely rare.

[Josh]

Now they are, but they sold many of those manifolds. You can still buy the turbo manifold from Mazda but they are pricy. Heck I was strolling through a wrecking yard and found mine just by chance. I saw one up FS recently on CP . com

[SuperK]

Does this count?

[specialtyneed]

Club protege, thx. A friend of mine has 4 of those vj (maybe) series off 1.8l Subaru's made by IHI correct? just made in Japan not IHI America?. He is bringing one in tonight for us to measure and figure out adapter flanges and routing of turbo ex outlet and air in & outlet pipes. They use a triangular mount flange according to pics I saw last night of a old 60's or 70's VW bug with a 1.8L subaru engine and a VJ-14 turbo installed (and with turbo pre-install).

[specialtyneed]

What years 323 GTX BF american model are we talkin about with the VJ-14 ? The list I found does not specify years.

Anyone know what years Subaru might have used it? I can ask my uncle but he is retired from being their head tech guy but takes 3 days to reply usually. Like an 1986 EA82 engine code 1800 cc ohc 1985 and up GLT to what Subaru XT or Loyale. Maybe? Answer: posted NASIOC engine turbo applications in bold red list below.

[specialtyneed]

What kind of issues do the eBay turbos have exactly? I know the Garrett internals at least are china now.

[specialtyneed]

Okay target at wheels is 250 hp on my 107 stock B6DE 1.6L man trans RS without any expensive mods, no inter-cooler due to only wanting to punch it into a hole in traffic occasionally and not rag on it all the time and maybe 323 GTX injectors but only if necessary to make no more than 250 hp. I want a safety margin of 50 hp from 300 hp limit on the B6DE internals. Looks like the better posts on the NASIOC Subaru forum here http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... td04+13t+6 say that the older VF type IHI Turbos are not good candidate due to no used spares new parts/ kits available. Looked and Ebay only has 2 international ones listed and no parts. Instead the Subie guys suggest for a small engine and limited boost the Mitsubishi TD04 more specifically TD04-13T-6 where 13T is the turbine assy and 6 is the pressure housing I think. I see at first glance rebuild kits for $55 less turbine. Plenty of parts on ebay and forums for both Garret T25/T28 and Mitsubishi TD04. Mitsi kits avail fits these turbos TD04- 5C, 5B, 7B, 9B, 11B, 9G, 11G, 13G, 13C, 15G here is ebay listing for ref http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Repair-Ki ... 54&vxp=mtr it lists a lot of applications. The mani mount flange looks like same bolt mount mani pattern as Garret T3 and ex discharge is triangular. Only problem I see is Mitsi kit has brass (floating) bushing instead of roller bearings. Thought this was obsolete tech now. Looks like the inexpensive kits all have brass floating bushings in them. Not going to be as effecient. The old subie ones with brass floating bushings had a lot of tolerance.

Looks like according to this rebuild kit on ebay the IHI VJ14 (OEM #) is aka MFG # RHB51/RHB52 from this model and engine: 323 4WD 1.6 16V P316USA VJ14 B6E8 with a very interesting long fit list including Yanmar 3 cyl diesels (of which I have one good long block).
Fit with:
ISUZU: AI11 / AI24 / AI79 / AIAD / CI15 / CI30 / CICM / GI24/ MI45 / MI57 / MI64 / MIBK / VI13 / VI14 / VI19 / VI23 / VI34 / VI36/ VI43 / VI55 / VI58 / VI74 / VI77 / VI78 / VI83 / VI85 / VI86 / VI95 / VICB Turbochargers
SHIBAURA: AS6 / AS7 / AS8 / AS9 Turbochargers
TOUYOU: AT3 Turbochargers
YANMAR: AY33 / AY64 / AY72 / AY73 / AY78 / CY55/ CYAR / CYBB / CYCT / CYDG / GY12 / GY14 / GY32 / GY48 / GY56 / GY57 / GY74 / MY20 / MY25 / MY29 / MY31 / MY34 / MY59 / MY60 / MY67 / MY75 / MY8 / MYAQ / MYAZ / Turbochargers.

I have a friend who works at a John Deere Dealer as a part time mechanic who may be able to get some take off spares for the internals at minimum since they seem to be the same range if I can ID the rotor as the one I need.

NASIOC engine code Turbo list really good list http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... turbo+list

NASIOC Turbo FAQ/ Primer - really great info http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... urbo+liste

[Josh]

250HP on stock internals?... FYI they tend to throw rods at about 230ish, or about 24 - 27psi.

second no Inter cooler? are you running water injection? also going with a small VJ14 will not get you to 250 hp goal. you will be looking at custom just about everything on a B6DE to get to where you are wanting to go. Not to mention that the F-series trans coupled with it likes to blow differentials. You are looking at a T3/T4 hybrid, GT28, or a 16G all will be custom. you may be able to find an Ebay manifold for a Miata 1.6l from 91-93 that you can use, generally they come with T3 flanges. I suggest that you keep researching to see what exactly you will need to reach your goal. I did mean Club Protege.

[specialtyneed]

Josh,
Correct about ebay Miata mani see last link below. This is the first I have heard about the rod problem. I do not rev her way past red line. And those boost numbers look high for what I am doing just setting a ceiling not worried about coming in even far short of goal with compromises just want to prevent from wasting the engine with conservative use. Yes I am still getting educated. Thanks for the help.

This one from AZ by user wgnths looks spoken for http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/showth ... d+for+sale

I saw another same forum tig welded aftmkt for $350 what the heck,why so steep and for used? I can weld my own exactly what I want without dealing with moding the flange for $211 from JGS precision fab and coat it what ever crazy color I want have 4 colors already.

Here is a all CRS (SS) ETD new ex turbo Miata/MX-5 manifold for 90-93 MAZDA MX5 Miata 1.6L Engine Fits TD05-16G Mitsubishi turbo cnc flange on Ebay for $110 free shipping here http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mazda-Miata-MX5 ... 0d&vxp=mtr
Anybody using these having problems (no rumors)?

[specialtyneed]

Since you mocked my setup with out asking why I confess I am not telling you everything:
Without getting into long tech discussion (not for here see Yahoo closed user group same subject) we are doing things with VPFR/GEET (Vortexing Plasma Fuel Reformer) that are going to change drastically how the combustion is done effectively negating the traditional problems that inter coolers are for. But admittedly this is NOT easy and NOT for most folks even for a generator its hard particularly difficult on a turbo engine and the inventor will not even mess with it due to the extreme difficulty level but I have always liked extreme challenges. Do not try this at home folks it can be dangerous if not done correctly. You read the warning disclaimer nuff said. Simply put I am going to get so much better (exponentially) atomization from the fuel that the hot air at high comp/press ratio will not matter or cause detonation. Do not ask how. It takes volumes and months for people to understand this even moderately (inc me). This should also negate the need to the larger 323 GTX injectors. This is a dual mode setup. Starts on one mode and switches to another after normal operating temps reached. That is all the explaining I am ever going to do on the VPFR. Other than yes or no answers.

To whom it may concern: But do us all a huge favor and learn this from yahoo forum for about a year minimum before asking ANY questions.

[RobMinhas]

Suddenly your username is very relevant.

[Josh]

Since you mocked my setup with out asking why I confess I am not telling you everything:
Without getting into long tech discussion (not for here see Yahoo closed user group same subject) we are doing things with VPFR/GEET (Vortexing Plasma Fuel Reformer) that are going to change drastically how the combustion is done effectively negating the traditional problems that inter coolers are for. But admittedly this is NOT easy and NOT for most folks even for a generator its hard particularly difficult on a turbo engine and the inventor will not even mess with it due to the extreme difficulty level but I have always liked extreme challenges. Do not try this at home folks it can be dangerous if not done correctly. You read the warning disclaimer nuff said. Simply put I am going to get so much better (exponentially) atomization from the fuel that the hot air at high comp/press ratio will not matter or cause detonation. Do not ask how. It takes volumes and months for people to understand this even moderately (inc me). This should also negate the need to the larger 323 GTX injectors. This is a dual mode setup. Starts on one mode and switches to another after normal operating temps reached. That is all the explaining I am ever going to do on the VPFR. Other than yes or no answers.

To whom it may concern: But do us all a huge favor and learn this from yahoo forum for about a year minimum before asking ANY questions.

See this makes more sense It does not take that long to understand... and there are several here on the forum that may give some good insight to this type of project. I commend you on doing something different. My recommendation would be to try and source out some B6T, BPT, or GTR rods, as this will save your engine. The OE rods are strong but I have seen them blow threw the block at 18psi on a VF20. Running so hot, it might be helpful if you changed your valves over to a sodium filled or stainless steel valve, a small expense for the safety of your engine. B6T and BPT valves are sodium filled but different size than that of the B6DE motor.

I have used two different Ebay manifolds they hold up well if and only if you reweld the flange or add a stabilizer bracket to it. They are machine tig welded and the welds tend to be thin. and if under the weight of the turbo and heating and cooling they can crack at the welds.

[specialtyneed]

I was thinking of 15psi boost as a limit do to the number of damaged engines I saw reading for the higher boost levels (stage II and up) This is about a stage I project. Lets try to keep it simple. My older friend is a bit frustrated with why I won't go to 20 psi but mostly it vastly complicates things from mechanicals to fuel to ign, mas/f, and then there are the huge problems at that level with the VPFR stuff that a far worse. The VPFR acts like a water injection in a lot of its affects and its common to use a bubbler/Piezo system to atomize a far less volatile fuel or water (one in the same at this VPFR atomization, really beyond that to sub molecule level).

Is as much as breaking stuff and heat and lubrication goes we do some pretty wild lube stuff and do not ever loose hard parts to those issues which is hard to tell difference in the aftermath from lube issues and excessive torque/RPM when your not doing extreme racing type lube chemistry. Without going into all the details we use a fuel mix additive of 5 different components 1 of which is a high grade syn 2 cycle GPZ Torco oil at 1000:1.5-3 fuel/additive ratio the rest are petrol distillates and super lubricants all synthetic. In crank cases and gear boxes we use a mix of 4 different products 1 of which is a combination of 5 additives some petrol based and some synthetic. None of this can be had at the local retail stores. We use NO Teflon/PTFE products and nothing with a large molecule size like Motor Up, etc.

Good tip on the stress load/ bracket but I had noticed the trends of cracked manis on the other searches and forums and was anticipating such issue hence why I mentioned not minding doing my own fabrication or modifying. And the engineering load I had already been concerned with due to the moment (distance and weight of turbo assy from mount flange) vibes/resonance and heat cycling. Thanks. Just trying to keep as close to OEM as possible is always a concern due to the wild flux in aftmkt parts industry.

If we determine I need heat resistant valves and better rods will revisit it in future. This is my 1st Mazda project I am more older Subie/Honda/Chevy/ (Nissan/Ford VQ) experienced so the acronyms are keeping me off balance. Also machining for B6T/BPT does this not remove more material and make the head more prone to crack between the jacket or the valve seats? Or is this essentially the same casting or non issue due to design and experience? We are used to engines mostly over built like the nissan VG30E and chevy 5.7L which are about 1000hp capable engines. I have not looked that up yet. Adding this all up, Rods, bearings, valves, seats, machine work, time, new gasket kit... looks expensive and maybe not necessary at my hp and use level.

If the stock RS engine gets a short over temp I likely could loose the heads easier post machine work? Unless this head is way detuned or the like to begin with. Educate me. Remember I am not racing this and short WOT bursts under about 8 seconds is the limit we plan to stick with.