Update: the time has come...

[Gro Harlem]

If you want to see lazy...come to Europe...holy hell these people are L A Z Y in so many ways compared to us.

Don't get me wrong, I always thought Americans were the laziest stupidest morons to ever roam the earth but after my tour around Europe i can confidently say that we are far less-lazy, probably equally stupid (or intelligent) and have a similar ratio of morons. It is definitely a cultural thing here & it is slowly leeching it way stateside as more of the younger generation feel self-entitled & become less self-reliant.

So many reasons i want to come back, yet so many reasons I don't...it sucks you can't find a place that has the best of both worlds

[MrMazda92]

I wanna slap people who complain about "Press 1 for english, 2 for spanish." it's a corporation's decision to cater to multi ethnicities and it's none ya business. If you're offended, just don't call, and don't ask for help. My problem is, usually the immigrants are willing to work harder than your local folk. back down when I used to live with my parents I worked residential construction with my father.

Once upon a time, you pressed 2, 3, 4, etc. for languages besides English. Is it reasonable to have to listen to 30 seconds of monotonous, computer generated dialogue in a language you don't speak, all so you can finally opt out of it? Maybe to some people...

Even though a mexican didn't understand english properly, and it was hard to communicate, we could get more work out of him than we could a bonafide american. They are eager and willing to work, and they're willing to work hard. They don't complain or ask for handouts. The only handouts they want is a job. They eat, sleep and work... with some tequila on their off-time.

For what it's worth, this doesn't apply to everybody. I know "bonafide Americans" who are just as lazy as you make them out to be, and I agree that they need to get their s--- in line. Throwing every one of us down the toilet over a few a-holes isn't really reasonable. That's like Europeans claiming that ALL Americans are overweight... Yeah, a disgustingly large number of us are(pun intended), but some actually care about fitness and take pride in the work they do.
Back on topic though; In 2010 I was charged with "Reckless Driving", over a low speed collision in rush hour traffic. I was driving a recently reconstructed(totaled a few months prior) Ford Taurus SEL, and my brakes failed at ~30 mph.
Long story short, I had it dropped to Careless driving and had to do a few weeks of road crew, pay a fine, and complete a laundry list of other crap. All for an accident that was no fault of my own.

Now, the reason I went into detail:
Road crew was a royal b----. I had to work with a bunch of drugged out, violent offenders, over a traffic infraction. I had to watch an overweight deputy Sheriff sit on his a--, giving orders to these offenders. Do you want to know what I did while they were wasting time and half-assing the work? I worked, and I worked hard.
Do you think the deputy cared if I worked hard or not? Hell no. Was I being paid to work hard? Hell no. I worked hard because there was work to do, and I'd rather work hard than stand around with my thumb up my a-- as others were doing.

Not everyone in this country is lazy, and I HATE when people justify this argument with "Americans don't work hard", or "Americans are lazy". Yeah, you'll find pathetic, weak-minded, lazy people in every country. America has a lot of them too, but not all of us are like that. I had a job last year that literally COST ME MONEY. It cost more to drive to work, or walk to work(the time it took), than I made from the job. I kept working because it was work, and it opened the door for a better paying job. That better paying job only paid about $200 a week, but at the time it was the best I could do, so I worked my a-- off to get there.

I'm genuinely disappointed in what you've said in this thread.

Compare that to an american who thinks that the country should cater to their every whim, they mope about, expect a high pay, then when the work day is done waste their money on drugs and alcohol and barely make it through the work week financially, just waiting for their next fix. I'll take a mexican kthx. The ONLY problem I have with immigration is that there should be a way to impose taxes on them.

I don't drink, don't smoke, don't use any drugs beyond Tylenol, and I sure as hell don't ask my country for more than my share. I even approve of raising taxes for everyone, not just the wealthy, or corporations. This country is going to hell, and nobody is willing to do what it takes to fix it. The problems are everywhere, neither legal nor illegal immigrants are doing their part to change that. Don't go blaming one without the other please.

[SuperK]

OK, I appreciate it if you don't take it out of context, thanks. I clearly stated "Residential construction with my father."

If you have not been in residential construction for any given length of time (hammering a nail doesn't count, I mean months of labor) then please do not apply my topic to another profession.

And here's the thing about stereotypes: They're to encompass the majority of a large group of people. Yes, there are exceptions. Yes there are people who care about their work ethics and their personal health. But stereotypes exist for a reason: for the most part they are true. So when (most of us) stereotype a culture or a group, or anything, it's the "majority" not "all-inclusive."
It's the same deal when we use the words, "Always" or "Never." You never use the words always, and never use the words never, because chances are sometime in your life, you've probably done it/said it/etc. (I said never on purpose ) But we still use the words because it's a "figure of speech" to describe, "The amount of times you've done/said this far outweigh the number of times you haven't."

Granted it would be a whole lot easier if we were all proper and used the words, "Mostly" and "Seldom" it's just as important to understand when someone else refers or uses the phrases, to take the implied meaning and not the literal meaning.

Before strutting in here taking things all personal, take a breath, and understand that my situation I described isn't yours.

Here's a good example: Inodoro says immigrants with fake SSN's have to pay taxes. This doesn't apply to my example, because none (or, to clarify, the majority of immigrants, since we're stereotyping again for the majority, not all-inclusive) of the immigrants in construction, get under-the-table cash, tax free.

If you've ever worked as a server in any large chain restaurant (I worked at Olive Garden for 3 years) I was one of the 3 people there who didn't smoke or do drugs. "People who serve at restaurants are drunken druggie partiers" is what I say. And I worked in that environment. I didn't partake of the popular culture of servers, but I still stereotype the profession I was in, excluding me. when you're not the majority, you're the exception.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Yep, this country is going to hell, and, for the looks of it, so is this thread.

I work in a company that makes plastic parts for American cars. The company is working 24/7/365. Out of the several hundreds that work there, there's 1 American (the owner), 1 Philipino, 1 East African, and 1 Spanish. The rest are Cuban, Colombian, Venezuelan, Argentinian, Nicaraguan, etc.

Blake, I'm sorry you felt offended. I hope you know it was never my intention, and I'm sure it wasn't K's intention either. But, deep inside, you do know K is right. Yes, you're different, but look around you: as much as you may hate it, you have to admit a very high percentage of Americans ARE lazy. Sure, not all are, same as not every American is obese, but you can't deny this country has one of the highest (if not THE highest) percentages of obese people in the World.

Sorry, I know it hurts, but you can't fight reality...

[SuperK]

Most laziness is formed out of a "sense of entitlement" that "we the people" have. The cry of reparations, the demand for benefits, etc.

people forget that no matter what ethicity/background/nationality you are, you are human. No matter language, skin color, hair color, location, it doesn't matter. Those with a sense of entitlement deems themselves better and demand better treatment. "We're in america, we all need to speak 'merican!" is what I hear all too often, and it's a struggle not to take it "personal" and to reach through that phone, grab them and shake them incessantly while yelling, "There IS no language called, "American! It's a FREE country, you speak any language you want to, and shame on companies who don't have press 1 for english, 2 for spanish, 3 for german, 4 for hindu, 5 for hippie, 6 for pig latin, in any given order, if they're serving ANY of those communities who speak those languages!"

... But then I gotta learn to not take things personal. You won't change a man who is not willing to change himself so let it go. There is a time and place to educate people to be more accepting and... as much as I hate the word, "open minded"

and most of the time, it's neither time or place to say the things we say...

I wouldn't say this thread is going to hell, there's a lot of very valuable things to learn in here. Don't take things so personal, be more understanding of literal and implied meanings, there's a lot more different applications

[mikeinaus]

my only problems with immigration are: the people that move to my country for a better life and make no attempt at adapting to our culture, living here for decades and not even learning the language and then being racist against "white" people. if your country is so much better then mine, why didnt you stay there? and my second complaint has to do with Canadas policy which basically states if you have enough money and are willing to invest in business in canada then your welcome to come. on paper thats fine. in reality the jobs they do create they put "must speak mandarin, hindu, etc" in their adds which is clearly discriminatory and against our laws, but its not like the government would step in or do anything as they have already gotten the money in their pocket. they also pay and treat there employees like crap. it probably has to do with the fact that in their country they are rich and basically have slaves for pennies and adopt that philosophy here. that being said there are plenty of white people that were born here that do the same thing. i guess i just expect everyone to be treated fairly and given an honest chance of making a living they can actually survive on. theres far to many jobs that pay pennies that people are forced to take because there simply isnt any other option. where i am its hard to find work and being told im not good enough because i dont speak a language that isnt a recognized language in this country, is straight out racism. white people in history have a bad reputation of being bigots and racists, which is well deserved but as far as im concerned its not all about the white devils anymore and that we are in some cases being discriminated against.

you can say were lazy all you want, but at the end of the day i know ive worked harder in my past then 90% of the people out there. before i started school i was working 60-80hours a week for 8 months straight, not including an hour commute each way to/from the job site. that was hard physical labor as well. ive also done just about every crap job for crap pay you can possibly think of.

[RobMinhas]

my only problems with immigration are: the people that move to my country for a better life and make no attempt at adapting to our culture, living here for decades and not even learning the language and then being racist against "white" people. if your country is so much better then mine, why didnt you stay there? and my second complaint has to do with Canadas policy which basically states if you have enough money and are willing to invest in business in canada then your welcome to come. on paper thats fine. in reality the jobs they do create they put "must speak mandarin, hindu, etc" in their adds which is clearly discriminatory and against our laws, but its not like the government would step in or do anything as they have already gotten the money in their pocket. they also pay and treat there employees like crap. it probably has to do with the fact that in their country they are rich and basically have slaves for pennies and adopt that philosophy here. that being said there are plenty of white people that were born here that do the same thing. i guess i just expect everyone to be treated fairly and given an honest chance of making a living they can actually survive on. theres far to many jobs that pay pennies that people are forced to take because there simply isnt any other option. where i am its hard to find work and being told im not good enough because i dont speak a language that isnt a recognized language in this country, is straight out racism. white people in history have a bad reputation of being bigots and racists, which is well deserved but as far as im concerned its not all about the white devils anymore and that we are in some cases being discriminated against.

My parents are both immigrants from India, my grandparents moved here after them bringing along their other children and everything here is right.

With the exception of my father who's been here since he was 17, they refuse to adapt to the culture here, only learn the language because they absolutely have to. They're racist agains white people and pay very shitty and only employ other indians in our Liquor store. My family is very hardworking for the most part but its ridiculous that they expect so much.

[SuperK]

There is a lot of hate between indians (from india) and white americans, even here. we have some chinese people, but they are very nice, and actually adapt very well to the culture. I am all for preserving cultural and ethnic identity, however especially publicly acknowledging and respecting local culture and practices is a must. The mexicans, though, unfortunately seem to adapt to the "thug life" that's predominant in the projects here. Chattanooga is trying real hard to bring better living and practices in the projects in the neighborhood, but unfortunately, it's a very large community we have to work with. the largest percentages are blacks, then mexicans, then whites. It's pretty bad, the shootings in the city is multiples of other cities in the area, and the presence of young kids in gangs is quite dismal.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Yep. this thread is so far off topic, it hurts. I understand that, fortunately for me, my original post doesn't apply anymore, and it's good everybody is staying civil, but people are starting to take things personally.

SuperK: I think that sense of entitlement is caused by the BS the government (or the status quo, if you want) keeps feeding people.
Like some of you already know, I'm Argentinian. My constitution says EVERY PERSON of good will is welcome to live in my country. You don't need a "work permit" to work, you just need to get a job. And that never changed, even when we reached over 20% unemployment rates.
Meanwhile, in here, people are pushed (or "encouraged") to think a human being is just a piece of paper.
On another forum, I read, a few days ago, a member saying only legal aliens are "true Americans", and have a right to live and work in the US, comment most everybody on that thread was on agreement with. Those guys don't seem to remember that the a-holes that blew the WTC all had valid visas, and had entered the country legally.
So, my question is, Who is "more American"? The Mexican who swims across the river, to come here and work like an animal for years without papers, or the guy that gets a valid visa and murders 3000 people?

Mikeinaus: you seem to be confused as to the meaning of the word racism. ANY job interviewing process is, by definition, discriminatory. You are rejecting a bunch of people, to hire just a few.
But asking for somebody to know a language it's not racism. NOBODY impedes you to learn a second language, or a third one, etc. Speaking a language is a SKILL, like any other.
About the "lazy" bit, as SuperK said, nobody is talking about you in particular. Don't take it personally.

K: The problem with some Mexicans is, IMO, that crossing from Mexico is way too easy. Yeah, you need to have some big c0j0n3s to cross a river swimming at night, but it's still just muscle power, so anybody that doesn't have a place in Mexican society (petty criminals, unskilled people, etc) just comes here, and some end, inevitably, joining gangs, or becoming criminals. What people don't understand is that, for every Mexican (or Latin American) gangster, there are many honest, hardworking people. Same as for every immigrant that has no intention to adapt to this country, there are many of us who have fallen in love with it and embraced its customs.

[mikeinaus]

Mikeinaus: you seem to be confused as to the meaning of the word racism. ANY job interviewing process is, by definition, discriminatory. You are rejecting a bunch of people, to hire just a few.
But asking for somebody to know a language it's not racism. NOBODY impedes you to learn a second language, or a third one, etc. Speaking a language is a SKILL, like any other.

demanding a specific language other then English or french in canada is illegal. they can say its an asset but they are not allowed to not hire someone because they dont speak a foreign language. would it be acceptable if someone put white only or Chinese only in the job description? no it wouldnt, and the loophole they think they have found is demanding a foreign language. its basically there way of saying we only want people of our background to work for us. id be shocked if a white person applied to one of these jobs demanding mandarin and actually got a job over an asian person.

but your right this thread has gotten way sidetracked. Inodoro, im glad you finally found a job. i know how hard it can be to move somewhere new and not know many people. having trouble finding work and wondering how much longer you can support yourself or what your going to have to do when funds and peoples good will runs out is a stress i know far too well. its a feeling no one should have to go through. its hard to build up a foundation you can stand on without worrying about the the world crumbling under your feet. keep pushing forward, with some hard work and a bit of luck im sure youll get by.

[Ryan]

..... Just come to Canada. We're reasonable people up here.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Thanks guys. I'm not planning to move to Canada right now ( ), but I am planning to push forward, now that I can.
As of now, I'm undecided whether to stay in the US, or put some money together and go back to my country. Looks like there's some hard thinking in my near future...

[Josh]

..... Just come to Canada. We're reasonable people up here.

This is the best thing out of all this ranting.. Cause its True! I have yet to meet a mean Canadian

mikeinaus - well said!

I am a White immigrant well like 8 generations ago.... Culture... What culture? America is derived from immigrants with many diverse backgrounds and cultures. There is no just one there never was. So how are foreigners supposed to learn our culture?... What to be FAT LAZY SACKS of crap, who piss and moan about everything and do absolutely nothing to rectify anything, and who expect top pay for sub standard mediocre work. That's AMERICAN right there! at least in the past 10 to 15 years. The top 1% are the Americans that actually buckled down and worked hard so they don't have to.

The only thing I get upset with are those who come here illegally who misuse our system (because its obviously broken) and get free money for having a kid(s) here, and who get free money to attend school, to start a business, to live here... That is what is irritating to me, and its not that they are doing it, it is that our government allow it to happen. Its not their fault our government allows them to slip through the cracks and misuse a broken system. I could care less if they spoke English. Hell I have started taking Spanish, because i am seriously thinking of moving to South America within the next few years. And I am traveling to Mexico for the first time this summer.

Truth is this country is in major disrepair and needs a overhaul. I think we should call in Chip Foose

[Josh]

Inodoro - For what it is worth, I wish you much luck and success.

I can relate in some ways, as I have not made any money really this past year being unemployed myself. Due to politics and the crap company I worked for the State denied my unemployment even though I was able to prove they were partaking in illegal activities. Thus the reason for parting my RX8 and so on and so on. Parting selling all my left over crap and working odd jobs has kept me afloat. Now I have gone into business for myself.

[MrMazda92]

I read most of the posts, and I can see reason in most of them. I stopped reading Chris's after the hint that I'm close minded and ignorant. I won't be feeding the machine on this one, and that's all I have to say.

I know you meant no offense Inodoro, believe me. We've talked about this topic before, and although we don't see eye to eye on it, I've never had a problem discussing it with you. Respect as always, and I'm still glad you're staying!

mike, your statement here:

my only problems with immigration are: the people that move to my country for a better life and make no attempt at adapting to our culture, living here for decades and not even learning the language and then being racist against "white" people. if your country is so much better then mine, why didnt you stay there?

Pretty much sums up what I was trying to say, I'm glad you phrased it more eloquently and less offensively than I obviously did, as it was better received. It's good to know that I am not alone in this. I too, have been turned down for several jobs due to the fact that I do not speak a second language. Pretty awesome, in a city with a very small foreign language community per capita. Hell, I couldn't even get an interview at fast food restaurants last year. What's the politically correct way to describe a restaurant that employes 20+ people, only 2 of which are "white"? If they hired only "white" guys, that word would be racist. Cute. Come summer time, my Portuguese skin may be able to get me a job, eh? Not frying in the sun has its perks I guess.

In conclusion, I'm going to stick to MX-3 specific topics from now on. I will not have a troll-war on a car forum. I will keep my opinion between myself, and those who care to open their ears and minds.