A-typical rant for me("Officers of the law")

[wytbishop]

A quick question, if it's not too much trouble.

How many tickets/accidents did you accumulate in your first 5 years of driving?

One more point:

Wisdom is a mark of experience, not age.

An intelligent man learns from his mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Have you heard that before? Likely, although I have a feeling you put little stake in it.

I have friends in their 30s who've experienced far less than my 94 year old great grandmother, as far as age is concerned; However, they've traveled farther, seen more, done more, sacrificed more, and experienced things that would make my 94 year old grandmother cringe.

If my opinion is so foolish in your eyes, by all means let sleeping dogs lie. I'm perfectly content with my world views, ever changing and adapting as they are.

It's not too much trouble at all. It's hard to recall as it was ~20 years ago, but it's safe to say it was a lot. I never had my license suspended...but I had some pretty expensive insurance for a while there. And you know why? Because despite my considerate, courteous nature...I was a 18-25 year old punk. I made choices based on doing what I wanted and I got caught. I thought it would be cool to ride my bike at 240kph at 3am...and it was till I got caught. I thought it would be cool to put a big loud exhaust pipe on my bike and it was...till I got pulled over doing 40kph because it sounded like I was doing 90. At the time I pretended like it was his fault...but it wasn't. It was mine. I chose it.

You're clearly a fairly intelligent guy. I'm sure when your sister needed a ride that day you went through it in your mind..."I have a broken strut and no exhaust. If I drive her in my car, and a cop hears me he's going to be on me like a fat kid on a smartie...but what do I do? She has to get to school and this is the only way." So you did what you had to and it went the way it did and you knew before you left that it might go that way. You could have figured out a bus schedule...or called a cab or who knows...but you had a decision to make and you made it. I'll grant you that the cop sounds like he missed the call pretty badly, but you can't say that you have no responsibility in the matter. You chose the choice that most young people in that position would chose. And the situation you're in now is the consequence. It sucks cuz you really didn't do anything horribly wrong...you just should have found another way to get your sis to school.

I have been a little overly harsh in this thread and I appologize for that. Your post bugged me and I went off a bit. I know you're never going to agree with what I'm trying to say. I know you don't think so, but I'm trying to help you.

[wytbishop]

ethnic background... type of car you drive...

is it any different?

I'm not talking about police harassing drivers Ryan. I'm talking about drivers who make poor choices and don't accept responsibility for their part and then complain that the system sucks. The fact that a guy gets pulled over for driving an import or a girl gets off with a warning for being pretty is a totally separate issue and in my opinion totally irrelevant.

If a guy gets pulled over for being Latino I do think that's another totally separate issue and much worse, but that's not at all what I'm talking about either.

And for the last time, I'm not talking about masculinity. When I say "Man Up", I'm saying quit acting like a child who expects the world to always do whats right. it just doesn't work that way.

and for the record, I deeply regret ever getting involved in this. You may all now whine to your heart's content without my interfence.

[Ryan]

I agree with you about the choices. I could choose to drive a minivan and drive exactly the speed limit, hold my hands at 10 and 2 or whatever, and do it all right, etc.

and I agree that if I choose to tool around and drive a wee bit recklessly well within reasonable limits, which I do occasionally, I may get harassed, and I have.

what I don't like, is the officers who take it overboard, lie, and in general circumvent the law for their benefit, may it be fiscal, not sounding like a douche in a court of law, break traffic regulations without good (or any) cause, simply because they know they can't be held to their actions.

I by no means group all cops under one roof, but there are bad apples... and when it comes to those who "Serve and protect" etc, none of them should be power-tripping egoists. They should be cream of the crop.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

I'm not talking about police harassing drivers Ryan. I'm talking about drivers who make poor choices and don't accept responsibility for their part and then complain that the system sucks.

And that's precisely the problem. If you read the OP's first post again, you will see he's not complaining about the ticket (although he's clearly not happy about it), but against the things the cop did to give it to him.
This thread has NEVER been about MM92 (or anybody) not accepting their responsibilities. From the beginning, this thread has been about cops ABUSING THEIR POWER, and nobody holding them responsible for that.

And no, race profiling, gender profiling, age profiling, they're NOT a different issue. They're EXACTLY what we're talking about from the beginning: cops not having to take responsibility for their actions.

Like I already said, I've been profiled before. That racial profiling is the main reason why I had my license suspended for the last 3 years. Cops (just like everybody else) should realize their actions have consequences. But most importantly, legislators should realize that cops today are not as proud to wear the uniform as they once were, and modify the laws accordingly.

[wytbishop]

I agree with you about the choices. I could choose to drive a minivan and drive exactly the speed limit, hold my hands at 10 and 2 or whatever, and do it all right, etc.

and I agree that if I choose to tool around and drive a wee bit recklessly well within reasonable limits, which I do occasionally, I may get harassed, and I have.

what I don't like, is the officers who take it overboard, lie, and in general circumvent the law for their benefit, may it be fiscal, not sounding like a douche in a court of law, break traffic regulations without good (or any) cause, simply because they know they can't be held to their actions.

I by no means group all cops under one roof, but there are bad apples... and when it comes to those who "Serve and protect" etc, none of them should be power-tripping egoists. They should be cream of the crop.

I completely agree with that.

And that's precisely the problem. If you read the OP's first post again, you will see he's not complaining about the ticket (although he's clearly not happy about it), but against the things the cop did to give it to him.
This thread has NEVER been about MM92 (or anybody) not accepting their responsibilities. From the beginning, this thread has been about cops ABUSING THEIR POWER, and nobody holding them responsible for that.

And no, race profiling, gender profiling, age profiling, they're NOT a different issue. They're EXACTLY what we're talking about from the beginning: cops not having to take responsibility for their actions.

Like I already said, I've been profiled before. That racial profiling is the main reason why I had my license suspended for the last 3 years. Cops (just like everybody else) should realize their actions have consequences. But most importantly, legislators should realize that cops today are not as proud to wear the uniform as they once were, and modify the laws accordingly.

...and I still disagree with that.

And I'm done.

[umcamara]

I was a part of this thread at the beginning, and I decided to kind of butt-out. Just wanted to say, if it has any merit at this point, that I have respect for all you guys, and what you're all saying.

I know Ryan personally, and I'm quite shocked at what a mature guy he is. He's young, yes, but other than only living the number of years he has and his young appearance, you wouldn't know it. As far as technical issues go, I trust Ryan's knowledge as if it's my own.

I have internet respect for MrMazda. He started out a little rough on here with me, among others, but has more than redeemed himself as an intelligent guy and a very valuable member in his own way.

Inodoro, much internet respect, and respect for his vast knowledge. Again, he and I started off on the wrong foot, but I think we've come full circle. Most of what he says, I feel I don't even have to double-check, because I'm pretty sure it's valid.

Charlie (Wytbishop) - With all due respect, and without any sort of brown-nosing, is the type of guy that any guy would do well to emulate. I don't need to tell anybody that he is one of the most knowledgeable people on this site, and I'm sure in many other venues (Car-wise and wisdom-wise).

You all have very valid points in your own ways. But I believe that you're all missing the point that Wytbishop is trying to make. Of course his posts may have come across as personal, "Punks", "Man up", etc. But try to understand that they're just very valid generalizations and not personal attacks. He is, I believe, trying to help you all, because he's been there before. So have I, and so have all of you in your own ways.

To be honest with you, I don't see this thread as out-of-hand at all. I think it's remained rather civilized.

I know it's essentially the lyrics to a kinda gay (IMO) song that's on the radio now, but for a long time (since I went through some pretty intense personal experiences several years ago), the one thing that makes the most sense to me is that a truly wise person realizes he knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about anything. The more you know, the more you realize you don't know anything, and have no idea.

[Flyer]

Wouldn't it be nice if you could opt out of certain services? Of course, then you would have no right to complain when s--- hits the fan...

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Inodoro, much internet respect, and respect for his vast knowledge. Again, he and I started off on the wrong foot, but I think we've come full circle. Most of what he says, I feel I don't even have to double-check, because I'm pretty sure it's valid.

Oh...Gee, Curtis...

Yes, we did start on the wrong foot. I was used to a different kind of forum then, and it took me some time to realize you all were not the same kind of people. But yeah, that's all in the past.
Anyways, remember I'm human, and I make mistakes. Double checking is always a good practice.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could opt out of certain services? Of course, then you would have no right to complain when s--- hits the fan...

See? That's what I'm talking about when I say they're not proud of wearing the uniform.
What would've happened if there was someone trapped in the house? Do people have no right to live just because they don't pay?

[Sleeper6]

Its all part of owning a Japanese economy car my friend.

Fixed.

Hey! Its still a sports car to me , but I see your point. Ild hate to imagine how much attention you get for your FD, its a shame for such a beautiful machine, I feel for you man.

[MrMazda92]

ethnic background... type of car you drive...

is it any different?

Yes, sadly. They're both considered profiling, however one is socially unacceptable(yet still happens, hmm), and the other is un-acknowledged.

[2RotorsNaDream]

I'm latino and I drive, im such a punk. Should I stop b----ing that i get stopped for absolutely no reason, asked where im hiding my drugs and guns, and have my car searched constantly so I can be a real man?? Please man, laying down and taking abuse makes you a pussy, not a real man.

Your ethnic background has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. What you're talking about here is a completely different discussion.

It has plenty to do with this conversation, explain how it doesn't. You told everyone here that we're punks when we get pulled over and that we need to grow up and stop acting like punks and we wont get pulled over anymore. I get pulled over all the time for no other reason other than being young and latino. Should I grow up and bleach myself?? Maybe some facial reconstruction to get rid of my latino features? Please advice me old wise one.

[MrMazda92]

I also feel this got a bit out of hand, thankfully it's mellowed out already.

My opinions haven't changed on these matters, but I would like to apologize for my over-zealous defensiveness early this morning. I should have waited for a full night's sleep to reply, I spoke rashly to say the least.

I do see the value to what everyone is saying, including wytbishop. I don't have to agree with it, but I do respect where he is coming from.

Profiling, no matter what type it is, stems from a stereotypical norm(true or untrue) built by people's actions in the past.

Age profiling is a good example, as wytbishop mentioned about being a young punk. I'm 21, I get carded buying a scratch-it; Looking 16 when you're 21 counts against you in many ways. I can see where the officer's come from, seeing a red sporty car, driven by an (apparently) 16 year old kid, and taking an extra long look at him. That's to be expected, anyone falling into those categories is an at-risk driver.

My problem, is that the officer who pulled me over last year assumed these things, and more. When he pulled my record, saw 5 years of SPOTLESS driving, not even a parking ticket... He had a choice, he could use deductive reasoning, or he could cite me and avoid having to admit to his mistake.
He made the choice to ticket me anyways, despite having no basis for the ticket(beyond hearing a loud car)

That was bad enough, but when I showed up for my day in court, showed the judge all my documentation, and gave my statement of the incident in question... his story changed, drastically. He claimed that he SAW me driving carelessly in the parking lot. Here's the kicker, that made it even more ridiculous...

If he was close enough to see me in that TINY parking lot(small private school), why did it take him 4 and a half miles of road to pull me over?

My complaint was primarily about officer misconduct, there is no simpler way to put it.

Here's a map of where the ticket last year(first of my life) occurred.

Legend:
Red Circle - Marist High School/Parking lot, site of alleged incident
Blue Line - The route I took
Green Circle - The Fred Meyer where the officer pulled me over

Map:


Now, I have a question for you all...

If this officer saw me do what he claimed to have seen me do, why would it take him this great a distance to pull me over? Was I speeding? No. I was in no hurry, had nothing planned for the day, and I was not ticketed for speeding(Trust me, I would have been, had I sped)

So, in absence of excess speed... the only logical conclusion I can think of, is that the officer didn't see me. This would mean that he heard my car, and drove until he heard the same car(this time at highway speed, roughly 3k RPMs)

I have nothing left to try and prove on this matter, take this how you will.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

I agree with you, 100%

HAPPY NOW...



...PUNK?

[Ryan]

I imagine it would be funnier with the image...

[ethand]

I imagine it would be funnier with the image...

haha i dare say...
wow... gotta love how this turns out into a diplomatic essay-writing board hehe
mm92, i get what you're getting at - I've also been pulled over by a copper for no apparent reason, and the only reason I could see was that I had a loud, sporty car and i'm a new-ish driver (in Australia you must place a bright red/green "P"-plate on your car for the first 6months/2yrs of driving respectively, so the cops always know who's a new driver). I was doing 55 in a 60 zone, and the cop who pulled me over said that i didnt have my P-plates up, which in fact I did have displayed. When I showed them to him, he said that is wasnt upright enough, as it was stuck to my rear window (which, as you know, on the MX-3 is quite steeply slanted), but there was nowhere else for me to put them. Thankfully for me I got away with no charges, etc., just a "stern warning".
My point is that it aint fair, but I guess we need to be careful how we present ourselves when we get pulled over ('cause we all know we will), and not act like "punks"... to quote a certain someone
For me that was easy, as I genuinely do respect cops for the good stuff they do... plus I had my dad in the car at the time... makes it a lil easier to be extra respectful! I'm not saying that to be "holier than thou" kinda thing, but from my experience, if you comply with everything they want you to do and dont show attitude and admit/be appologetic to any wrongs you may have done, they seem less likely to charge you...
there's my two cents worth!