A-typical rant for me("Officers of the law")

[wytbishop]

My point is...

It doesn't matter than your English prof got pulled over when others were speeding worse than she was. It doesn't matter if your attractive friend gets off because she can cry on demand and look pretty. It does not matter. The world is not fair. Fair and unfair are concepts created by children to justify wanting things and allow them to complain when they don't get them.

The only thing any of us can control is the decisions we make ourselves. There's almost always an easy way and a hard way to do anything. What's right is almost always harder and usually not what we want. So you make a choice and you live with it. Sometimes you htink you did everything right and you get a shitty deal. I get plenty of them. But in the end it's almost always something I could have avoided if I had taken a less desireable path. Sometimes I will take what I want with the knowledge that there will be unpleasant consequences. Make your choice and take your lumps quietly.

In truth there are lots of things that happen that are just not right. You should be able to drive down the road and not be discriminated against for your age or the kind of car you drive but it's never, ever going to be that way and that is very simply because the 18-25 year old punks of the world have shown over and over again in every generation since the dawn of time that they cannot set aside what they want or what is easiest in favor of what is best. Moaning about it won't make it stop. Making better decisions will help. "Real men" don't get off easier, they get in fewer bad situations and they don't complain about the bad ones they do find.

that's the truth. I told you it sucked.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Cops are human (kinda ), and, because of that, there will be some of them who abuse their power. What's surprising to me is that there's no way to hold them responsible for their actions here.

Just to clear up what I posted earlier: about 15 years ago, I was working with a company that provided the sound equipment for music shows. I'm not sure what my position would be called in English. Basically, my job was to load/unload the equipment from the truck, assemble the stage, test that everything was working properly, calibrate everything with the sound operator, and keep an eye on things during the show.
In Buenos Aires, the law says that taxies can ONLY park on the right side of the street, no exceptions whatsoever.
One night, when we got ready to load the truck after a show, the truck driver was unable to park, because there was a long line of taxies at the theatre's door. So, since I was in charge, I went to the cop guarding the door, and asked him to move the cars out, so we could park, to which he answered "they're working". So I said "you know they're not supposed to park in the left side of the street.", and he replied "in here, everything can be arranged". Talking to the doorman, he told me the guy was taking bribes from the cab drivers.
So I called "101" (the Argentinian version of "911"), asked to speak with the officer in charge, and explained the situation to him. Not 5 minutes later, a couple of squad cars pulled over (no lights or sirens), arrested the cop, and started taking statements from the people there, while other cops were giving away tickets to the cab drivers. The cop was eventually removed from the force.

Here, in the US, I had several experiences with cops, good and bad. I actually did get pulled over once, for doing 40 on a 65 zone (yeah, no mistake here, I was going 25 mph under the limit). At the time I had just a few days in the country, and one night I was going back home on my rented car, when I saw the cop behind me. He asked me why I was going so slow, and I said I was just enjoying the night (in Argentina, the minimum speed is always half the limit. I didn't know at the time that here the minimum is only 15 miles under the limit). So he looked at my Buenos Aires license, he asked me if I was lost (I told him I wasn't), said good bye, and left...

On the other end of the spectrum, one afternoon, while I was coming back home from work, I stopped at a red light in front of a dunkin donuts (which, I didn't know at the time, is always full of cops), and a cop car stopped behind me a moment later. Then, they turned on the lights, and pulled me over. They gave me a ticket for "reckless driving". Not only I wasn't driving recklessly, but if I was, those stupid cops would've never known, as they were fresh out the dunkin donuts, and they got on the street after I had stopped.

By the way: I drive like a grown up, look like a grown up, and act like a grown up, and the car I was driving at the time (my beloved '92 MX-3 B6) had the stock exhaust in perfect working condition, and the whole car was bone stock. But throw a Latin guy in a sub compact sports car in Miami, and no judge will contest a ticket, no matter if it's fabricated or not.

Later on, one afternoon, after having my DL suspended (fairly), I was riding a bike, when, while crossing a street, some guy in a new Camry ran the stop sign, and hit me. I called the cops. They came, asked us for our DL's, and when they saw mine was suspended, IMMEDIATELY they said the accident was MY FAULT, because I had no lights on the bike (never mind the accident happened while there still was light. It was the cops that took almost 2 hours to show up).

So, finally, I don't b--ch about tickets. I've had my share of real, fairly applied ones (mostly courtesy of my lead foot), but it is true that in this country there's a lot of cops that don't do their jobs. It's true there's a lot of racial, age, car, ect, profiling, and it's also true there's a lot of cops that are just bullies.

"Sucking up" to everything that happens to you is not acting like a man. It's acting like a "sucker". Acting like a man is owning up to your real responsibilities. I got handed a ticket some years ago, while doing 110 mph on a 65 mph zone. Not only I accept that ticket, but the cop that gave it to me showed to be a real gentleman throughout the process, and, even when he could've put me in jail (driving that fast is a felony), he chose to write down I was doing 75 in the ticket, to warn me, and to let me go. Now THAT'S a person who does his job, while at the same time being adult and understanding.

[Ryan]

My point is...

The world is not fair. Fair and unfair are concepts created by children to justify wanting things and allow them to complain when they don't get them.

Now Wyt, I suppose you're experienced enough to know this, I honestly mean that, but it doesn't change the fact that something in all of us revolts against unfairness, unless we have vested interests otherwise.

Are you suggesting we should live in a survival of the fittest, my stick is bigger than yours society? If someone wants it they take it, no matter if its fair or not?

I don't think you believe that. Yes, fairness is trivial in some situations, ie, you have no power over it, like this thread's topic, or a slave in a court 100 years ago, or someone deemed "mental unstable" in a lawsuit, or a geek surrounded by thugs who want his computer.

But is it RIGHT?

no.

Are we b----ing about it?

yes

is there anything wrong with that?

not really, although its proven pointless .(which is exactly what we're b----ing about)

does it suggest anything about our masculinity?

not really, we just have a sense of justice.

You are right, and I think we all know that, but we still don't like it, and to me, accepting that is more like laying down, than being a "real man". Maybe its because I'm young and spunky and still trying to change the world.



I apologize if my argument is a 'straw man' The term basically means that I make your idea look stupid to make mine look better, its a poor argument technique, and I have issues with it.

[wytbishop]

To be clear...I never said real man. You did. I implied Man vs. Boy. You infered that I was implying a question of masculinity...which I was not.

I am certainly not talking about survival of the fittest. I am the first to defend the weak and the rights of those who are truly being abused. But this is not a case of that. This is a case of a young man crying foul in a system that is designed to expose his poor judgement.

Right and wrong are very important, but don't confuse them with fair and unfair. Right and wrong are intrinsic. A thing is either right or it is not. Fairness is a construction, an illusion. It doesn't really exist and searching for it will cause you to spend your life disappointed. Complaining about its lack will only make you look foolish to those who have come, through age, to understand this.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Right and wrong are very important, but don't confuse them with fair and unfair. Right and wrong are intrinsic. A thing is either right or it is not. Fairness is a construction, an illusion. It doesn't really exist and searching for it will cause you to spend your life disappointed. Complaining about its lack will only make you look foolish to those who have come, through age, to understand this.

I absolutely disagree. That's a very cynical view.
Fair and unfair are a social construction, and, as that, are what differentiates us from any other animals. The fact that we are willing (more or less, depending on each individual) to accept doing or not doing something we want, because it's not fair, is what makes it exist. The LAW is a construct, designed, most of the times, to enforce fairness. The problem is that those whose job is to do the enforcing, are not being held accountable for their actions.
It's funny, if you think about it, that in countries where even the President is being continually controlled, by the Parliament and the Supreme Court, those punks can do anything they want.

[wytbishop]

Cynical perhaps. But realistic. I'm actually a very positive person.

I agree that although it is based originally in the intrinsic values of right and wrong in many cases the law is now a compromise between what's right and what's profitable and so the law, is not intrinsically right or wrong. But the right and wrong that you instinctively know...that which you are born knowing...these are unaffected by what's "fair".

When I think of the concept of fairness I see a 5 year old child complaining to its mother about having to go to bed or some other childlike resistance.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

I'm not saying you're not positive.

The example of the 5 year old you posted actually makes my point. A little kid complaining because he doesn't like something is not about fairness. We are NOT born with a concept of right and wrong. We are born with only our survival instinct. Because of it, if something gives us pleasure, it's "right", and if we don't like it, it's "wrong".
The real concepts of right and wrong, and of fair and unfair, are the application of that survival instinct to the group, before us. That is the conscious decision of doing something we don't like (or not doing something we like), because of the damage we could cause to others. That is the core concept of fairness, and it's something that comes with MATURITY.

A cop running a stop sign (for whatever reason) can eventually hurt/maim/kill somebody, just because they're in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and because they made the mistake of trusting the civic responsibility of somebody whose JOB is protect people against those who doesn't have it. This is NOT about the ticket, but about the actions some cops seem to think they're entitled to take, to enforce the law.

The concept of fairness is very real, and it's what allows a society to function. True: nothing is perfect, and, especially here and NOW, people seem to be losing a lot of the principles that let THIS society work in the past, while the law keeps relying on people following precisely those principles.
So, yeah, nowadays, cops don't have the sense of honor and civic responsibility they had half a century ago. That's why the law should be modified to make them accountable for their actions.

[wytbishop]

Yeah I pretty much couldn't disagree with you more completely.

[2RotorsNaDream]

Stop it...you're breaking my heart.

Yes...people get screwed and yes...some cops are dicks. But you sound like a bunch of teething infants.

MAN THE F$%& UP AND STOP MOANING ABOUT HOW THE WORLD IS OUT TO GET YOU. PRESERVE YOUR F&(*ING DIGNITY AND DEAL WITH IT LIKE A GROWN UP!


You want the truth...here it is and it sucks. You're a punk. When I was young I was a punk and I got lots of attention from cops because I acted like a punk. And then I figured it out and started acting like a man. As if by magic, I stopped getting all that attention. Anyone see a correlation?

Mr. Mazda...you got pulled over because your car sounded like it was going full bore. "My exhaust was cut off, it was loud and proud to say the least"

YOU CHOSE TO DRIVE A CAR AROUND WITH NO FRICKIN' EXHAUST!!! WHAT DID YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN??? BE A MAN AND ACCEPT THAT THAT HAPPENED BECAUSE YOU MADE A STUPID CHOICE. A MORE INTELLIGENT DECISION ON YOUR PART WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THAT. period. Was the officer wrong? Maybe. Did he embellish the facts? Perhaps, but I bet you're not being entirely forthright either. My experience tells me that the guy who got a careless driving citation and then a reckless driving citation probably did something to earn it whether he believes it or not.

None of this will change until you take some responsibility and start acting like a man. And for God's sake stop moaning on the damn internet about it. It makes you sound pathetic. Take your shitty lumps and learn from it and do it with some dignity.

That's what a man would do...in case you were wondering.

I'm latino and I drive, im such a punk. Should I stop b----ing that i get stopped for absolutely no reason, asked where im hiding my drugs and guns, and have my car searched constantly so I can be a real man?? Please man, laying down and taking abuse makes you a pussy, not a real man.

[MrMazda92]

Stop it...you're breaking my heart.

Yes...people get screwed and yes...some cops are dicks. But you sound like a bunch of teething infants.

MAN THE F$%& UP AND STOP MOANING ABOUT HOW THE WORLD IS OUT TO GET YOU. PRESERVE YOUR F&(*ING DIGNITY AND DEAL WITH IT LIKE A GROWN UP!


You want the truth...here it is and it sucks. You're a punk. When I was young I was a punk and I got lots of attention from cops because I acted like a punk. And then I figured it out and started acting like a man. As if by magic, I stopped getting all that attention. Anyone see a correlation?

Mr. Mazda...you got pulled over because your car sounded like it was going full bore. "My exhaust was cut off, it was loud and proud to say the least"

YOU CHOSE TO DRIVE A CAR AROUND WITH NO FRICKIN' EXHAUST!!! WHAT DID YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN??? BE A MAN AND ACCEPT THAT THAT HAPPENED BECAUSE YOU MADE A STUPID CHOICE. A MORE INTELLIGENT DECISION ON YOUR PART WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THAT. period. Was the officer wrong? Maybe. Did he embellish the facts? Perhaps, but I bet you're not being entirely forthright either. My experience tells me that the guy who got a careless driving citation and then a reckless driving citation probably did something to earn it whether he believes it or not.

None of this will change until you take some responsibility and start acting like a man. And for God's sake stop moaning on the damn internet about it. It makes you sound pathetic. Take your shitty lumps and learn from it and do it with some dignity.

That's what a man would do...in case you were wondering.

I'm not going to lie... I have never lost respect for someone so quickly as I have for you upon reading this. You try to come off as such a Sage, Diplomatic person, and then unload like this without taking time to analyze what people actually say, and throw insults in on top of it.

"You're a punk. When I was young I was a punk and I got lots of attention from cops because I acted like a punk. And then I figured it out and started acting like a man. As if by magic, I stopped getting all that attention. Anyone see a correlation?"

What part of 5 years of driving(age 15 to 20) without a single ticket was unclear to you?

Have you met me? Have you been privy to my driving? No, and no. Do you therefor have any way of knowing if I am a "punk" or not? Again, no.

Also, I may only be 21 years old... but that doesn't mean I haven't learned things the hard way. I'm not perfect, but I sure as hell know what it takes to be a man. I'm not on here to list my accomplishments to you, nor my mistakes. I'll tell you this though, I made it 5 years without a ticket, without an accident, without even being pulled over.

Do you know what changed? I bought an MX-3. A red MX-3. I still drive like a sane, healthy, courteous, respectful person. I've been repeatedly targeted by "Officers of the law" for the simple fact that I'm an easy target. I'm under the age of 25, I drive a red sporty car, and I happen to drive through double fine zones about 15 times a day.
**Edit** So far as I know, none of the 3 criteria I mentioned are against any laws. I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me an idiot again for a "mistake" or "poor judgement call" on that one.


Do you ever find yourself trying to get out of a parking lot, and nobody will let you into the lane because they feel 10 seconds of delay may ruin their entire day? Well guess what, I let people in. Always. I hate being the guy who can't get out, and I wave thankfully to anyone who does let me out. I'd appreciate it greatly if you would refrain from judging me further, especially given your very limited interaction with me. I can say, with VERY little doubt, that you drive more like a "Punk" than I do.

"Mr. Mazda...you got pulled over because your car sounded like it was going full bore. "My exhaust was cut off, it was loud and proud to say the least

YOU CHOSE TO DRIVE A CAR AROUND WITH NO FRICKIN' EXHAUST!!! WHAT DID YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN??? BE A MAN AND ACCEPT THAT THAT HAPPENED BECAUSE YOU MADE A STUPID CHOICE. A MORE INTELLIGENT DECISION ON YOUR PART WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THAT. period."

A) I had no access to any other car at the time, and it was my 2nd day owning it.
B) I was driving my little sister to school, which it took 3 years for her to even make a solid effort to even attend. What kind of brother would I be, if I told her she had to stay home because my car was not drivable due to an annoying sound?
C) I drove the car in that condition for roughly 8 months after that ticket, and never had a single sound related problem, despite being pulled over repeatedly for various crap, as previously mentioned.
D) It HAPPENED because a police officer made a poor judgement call. Upon realizing his mistake, and being confronted with PHYSICAL EVIDENCE DISPROVING IT COMPLETELY changed his story, and LIED under penalty of Perjury.

As for responsibility, I've made poor choices in my life many times. I've never had a hard time taking responsibility for them. Even when the officer pulled me over going 61 MPH, 6 over the speed limit. He asked if I knew my speed, I was honest. I took responsibility for it, and was promptly saddled with a 70 mph(15 over) ticket.

As for the man remark, do us all a favor and hold yourself to the same standards.

You've lost any and all respect I held for you, save that of your mechanical knowledge pertaining to cars.

[MrMazda92]

To be clear...I never said real man. You did. I implied Man vs. Boy. You infered that I was implying a question of masculinity...which I was not.

I am certainly not talking about survival of the fittest. I am the first to defend the weak and the rights of those who are truly being abused. But this is not a case of that. This is a case of a young man crying foul in a system that is designed to expose his poor judgement.

Right and wrong are very important, but don't confuse them with fair and unfair. Right and wrong are intrinsic. A thing is either right or it is not. Fairness is a construction, an illusion. It doesn't really exist and searching for it will cause you to spend your life disappointed. Complaining about its lack will only make you look foolish to those who have come, through age, to understand this.

A quick question, if it's not too much trouble.

How many tickets/accidents did you accumulate in your first 5 years of driving?

One more point:

Wisdom is a mark of experience, not age.

An intelligent man learns from his mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Have you heard that before? Likely, although I have a feeling you put little stake in it.

I have friends in their 30s who've experienced far less than my 94 year old great grandmother, as far as age is concerned; However, they've traveled farther, seen more, done more, sacrificed more, and experienced things that would make my 94 year old grandmother cringe.

If my opinion is so foolish in your eyes, by all means let sleeping dogs lie. I'm perfectly content with my world views, ever changing and adapting as they are.

[_-Night-Shade-_]

Wow... some sad people on this forum.

[ethand]

Wow... some sad people on this forum.

yah... this one kinda got outa hand... totally didnt see this coming!!
Speaking of which... why not turn our attention to other road users? I nearly got side swiped twice in one trip - on my way home from work today, neither person had seen me... a little bit scary how that can happen, hey! I just thought that it was crazy that it happened twice in the space of 10 mins, when it normally doesnt happen at all!! so weird...
Anyway...

[wytbishop]

I'm latino and I drive, im such a punk. Should I stop b----ing that i get stopped for absolutely no reason, asked where im hiding my drugs and guns, and have my car searched constantly so I can be a real man?? Please man, laying down and taking abuse makes you a pussy, not a real man.

Your ethnic background has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. What you're talking about here is a completely different discussion.

[Ryan]

ethnic background... type of car you drive...

is it any different?