Valve tapping on KL-DE

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Ok, so I have a '96 MX-6, with a KL-DE, I'm trying to sell.

Some time ago, I made the mistake of letting a "friend" borrow it. He gave me back my baby with a very loud ticking noise. At the time, I was convinced the noise was just too loud to be HLA related, so I thought the SOB had spun a rod bearing.
Then, one day, I took it for a short drive, and noticed the tapping noise disappeared completely once I went over 2000 to 2500 RPM.
That really got me thinking, and after a short session with the stethoscope, I found out the noise came from the top of the engine, not the bottom. So all this time I was convinced it had to have some major damage to either the HLAs or the camshaft(s), which, being that I've been unemployed since last December, is not precisely good news.
But today, I decided to do a search here on the subject, and I came across a post from 2004, saying that the loud tapping sound is due to the camshafts friction gear springs failing.
Is that the case? Was anybody able to get rid of that noise by just replacing the FGS's?

TIA.

[fowljesse]

SEAFOAM!
Someone should sticky a Seafoam "How-to", since this has been coming up so often, and people don't seem to be using the "search".

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Hmmm...you sure?
For what I read, the noise is caused by the FGS loosing its tension, and allowing the friction gear to free wheel.

Anyways, now I'm running Castrol Syntec 10 w 30 with ProLong. Do you think switching to Sea Foam would make much of a difference?

[marcdh]

Friction gear spring is pretty much always a focussed ticking in the rear left of the engine bay. Mazda produced a revised FGS and nut that interlock, eliminating the problem. I did both on my ZE, pain taking the cams out, and you need a BIG adjustable spanner to get those nuts off!

[PATDIESEL]

Seafoam will not stop a cam friction gear from ticking- it can help some valve or HLA noise though. It is not an oil substitute or additive, it is like hard-core fuel system cleaner.
Like Marc said, if it is the cam friction gear, there is a fix from Mazda, but it is a pain and time consuming. Check and see if it is on the left side of the vavle cover only. If it is, then my bet is cam friction gear, otherwise it is valve or HLA related.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Thanks guys.
The noise IS focused right in the left side of the engine, in the rear bank, so I guess there's no doubt about it.
So I guess now I'm gonna have to make a trip to the dealership...

[davmac]

Tip for removing the large nut that locks down the friction spring: Stand the camshaft up in a vise so the vise is holding the nut. Then turn the camshaft using a wrench on the flats.
Or I found that a 1-13/16 is close enough to a 46mm socket. I bought the standard socket and ½ to ¾ drive adapter for less than $20 at Ace HW. That was before I realized you could stand the camshaft in a vise.
These are the parts you want:
Spring: KLY1-12-417A
Nut: KL01-12-412A

Here are a couple of the best links about the cam friction spring replacement:
Best link on MX6 forum (sorry MX-3)
Here on MX-3

[marcdh]

Tip for removing the large nut that locks down the friction spring: Stand the camshaft up in a vise so the vise is holding the nut.

Haha I forgot not everyone's vice is buried in the back of the garage in a mountain of crap! That seems like a good method.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Thank you Davmac.
I've read the MX-6.com thread yesterday. It has a ton of great info.

I'm planning on going to the Ford dealership tomorrow morning (there's one not too far away from my place) and see how much they want.

Now, so far, for what I read, everybody recommends taking all 4 camshafts off to do it. Has anybody been able to replace those springs without disassembling the driving camshafts?

[davmac]

In the MX-3 writeup David Coleman doesn't even remove the timing belt!
I replaced mine when I replaced the head gaskets on my engine - so all camshafts were out. I'm pretty certain you could do this taking only the camshafts with the friction spring out as long as you lined up each pair of camshaft gears. But, to do the right side bank you're already removing the IM. I think I would remove everything necessary to pull the timing belt off, replace seals and caps on the camshaft. I think if you go try to get sneaky you'll end up with front end oil leaks - which I really hate. But I know that once you have things opened up it is hard to know where to draw the line on replacing parts.

BTW spring and nut cost about $25 per side. I only did the right - rear head figuring if necessary the left could be done much easier if necessary.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Thank you again.
I'll probably end up doing it just as you did.
I just hate having to take the timing belt off again (it's gonna be the third time), as there's very little elbow room in that side of the engine.

But we'll see. For what I heard with the stethoscope, the only bank that's making noise is the rear one.

Thanks again everybody for all the help.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Ok, now I'm in trouble.
The whole rear bank has stopped working.

I had the car already sold, and when the purchaser started it up to leave, the engine started to shake badly, and after checking it out, neither one of the rear cylinders are working.

Can that have anything to do with the friction spring problem?

[hgallegos915]

My car had a loud tick, now after i replaced the timing belt and tensioner, the ticking went away.


Could be that the engine is out of timing?


also what are you going to do? refund and cut your losses?

[marcdh]

Check your timing marks! Seems like this sound could have been coming alot lower than the FGS. The sound may transpire to have been the tensioner slapping off the timing belt cover. Did you replace the tensioner when you did the timing belt?

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Thank you both.
The guy backed off, so I had to give him his money back.
I will check the timing and tensioner, maybe today. I didn't replace the tensioner when I replaced the belt (I just didn't have the money), so it wouldn't surprise me if it had something to do with it.

Thank you all again. Will keep you updated.