my next ze project... advice please!

[Mooneggs]

Hello community,

I have decide it is time to get my slow car into shape! I'm planning on making my slow car my new fast car and making the fast car my new daily driver. I would be using the slow car for autocross mainly and maybe the drag strip every once in a while. Here's what I'm thinking for my list so far:

kl31 cammed ze with de valvetrain
k8 ecu with probinator chip
awr motor mounts front/rear (94 durometer) / mazdaspeed filled motor mounts for the sides
srd control arm bushings/engine mount bushings/ front rear tie bars
mx-3 transmission
Big Bore TB
exhaust - pacesetter or ssautochrome headers (undecided) to 2 1/4" piping
Millenia Alternator
A/C removal + smaller belt for the water pump and alternator.
I am keeping power steering
HEI mod
suspension?
flywheel?


But I have a few questions below:

I am wondering which flywheel to go with. I have read/heard that the mx-3 flywheel works well with the ze + mx-3 tranny. I'm currently using a fidanza flywheel with my kl01 cammed ze + 626 tranny and I like it but I'm wondering if a different setup would be more ideal. Advice please!

I'm also wondering what would be the best suspension setup. I've searched and there is alot of conflicting information just because everyone has different things they like. I was thinking about maybe the zx2 strut conversion with B+G lowering springs, or maybe the k sport coilovers. Advice please!

I currently do not have a UDP nor have I ever used one... would this be good to include in my list? are there any cons to installing this? what brand?

[turbulence23]

as for the tranny.

i really like the mx3 tranny more then the mx6/626.

i believe that the mx3 is a real sport tranny where the mx6 has a more cruising feeling, hence the fact that it has a longer 5th gear lowering the RPM when at cruise speed.

if going for topspeed get the mx6 tranny, just for acceleration the mx3

i have the mx3 flywheel in combination with the mx3 tranny and really like the short gear ratios with the ZE it rippes through the gears like crazy.

here in holland the K-sport kit is often used on the mx3, i also have one still sitting in the garage, but all over i have heard an read on the internet that if you don't like a hard an stiff ride you really shouldnt go for the ksports as they are stiff as hell ( even on the soft setting)

[hgallegos915]

Well thats a good build!


a real cammed ze with de valvetrain.

I say get a straight neck manifold, it fits our cars with minor mods.

Get a real ze ecu.


Use your current fidanza.


I too dont recommend the mx6 transmission.

The shorter gears are way better imo.

[turbulence23]

why do you favor the straight neck over the curved if i may ask?

[wytbishop]

I will be able to offer you a full set of 90duro suspension bushings before the end of the year as well as rigid spherical joint front sway bar end links. I may be coming up with larger diameter sway bars, but I'm not sure about that yet.

As for the rest of the suspension, it's just a question of budget right.

[fowljesse]

I say don't bother with the UDP. It seems that a good percentage of people that have used them (Mostly Probes) said that they upset the balance of the crank. Some say it doesn't. I wouldn't take the chance, just to be able to rev fast. I looked into it, because it could save a couple mpg. Here's a theory I picked up from a master engine builder many moons ago, when I was going to put an UDP on one I was building: The flywheel, even shaved down, weighs quite a bit, so the crank has to turn it. He said it would actually be better to have MORE weight at the pulley side, to counter the flywheel weight. It's like this; every time you change the speed of the rotating mass, the inertia of the flywheel will cause strain on the crank, and especially, the main bearing. If it were balanced on both sides, there wouldn't be as much twist.
Also, with more mass, you can launch, and keep the rpm up while shifting. Before you launch, you have all the time in the world to get the mass going. A lighter pulley will increase your drag times. Did you ever play with one of those cars that you run along the ground a bunch of times to get the wheels going, and then they keep going, and the car goes by itslef? It only has a "Flywheel" in it, and when you push the car, the wheels turn it, until it's got enough inertia in the rotating mass to keep the car going. So, if you had a 30lb flywheel, and a 30lb pulley, and enough traction, you could do 7 second runs with a SOHC I4.
Let me know if this doesn't make sense
What revs up fast, slows down fast, too, so between shifting, the revs will drop more than with OEM. All that extra speeding up, and slowing down of the engine can't be good.
WagZE is selling 2 ZE's, one with no heads, and the other siezed, along with a bunch of other stuff for $300. You'd have to rent a storage space to build it, though.

[Mooneggs]

yeah wytbishop I have been following your poly bushings BB and I would probably be interested in the endlinks and stuff... I have SRD control arm/engine member bushings and I am quite pleased with those...

Fowljesse, so what is the final conclusion? should I go with the fidanza or the mx-3 flywheel? I am pretty sure I will not do a UDP...

Hector, I'm not sure about the straight neck IM... I think if I get a probinator chipped k8 ECU it will be just as good as having a straight neck IM... also I have a VRIS tuner if it's still not hitting the VRIS points right I just don't want to chance busting my fluid resevoir or trying to relocate it.... I may even end up deleting the VRIS - we'll see

Oh and I already have a good lead on a freshly rebuilt ZE with everything done right

[fowljesse]

Congrats on the good lead.
I say, go with the lightened flywheel, for better mpg.

[WhiteFinish]

What kind of vris tuner do you have?

[Mooneggs]

Congrats on the good lead.
I say, go with the lightened flywheel, for better mpg.

JESSE - I honestly don't care about MPG, it's all about performance on this bad boy

[wytbishop]

It's like this; every time you change the speed of the rotating mass, the inertia of the flywheel will cause strain on the crank, and especially, the main bearing. If it were balanced on both sides, there wouldn't be as much twist.

This is not precisely true. The crank can be visualized as a shaft which a load on each end. The flywheel on one end and the pully on the other. The driving force on the shaft from the pistons firing can be simplified by a single applied force at the center because the discreet applied forces of the pistons come so close together that they can be approximated as a single constant force. The loads have inertia (resistance to change in velocity) based on their masses as you've said. The strain on the crankshaft is a function of the differential between the driving force and the inertia of the load. Therefore when the rpm's go up and the driving force on the shaft increases, each end of the crankshaft experiences different torque and resulting strain as a result of the weight on that end of the shaft. A lighter pulley will result in less strain on that end of the shaft and a lighter flywheel will do the same for the other end.

The functional stuff you touched on all makes sense. I have no drag experience, but I think the key would be that a lighter flywheel slows down faster as well as accelerates faster. That would definitely affect shifting.

[Mooneggs]

What kind of vris tuner do you have?

I don't know much about it except for some info on probetalk... I guess it is similar to MSD window switches

[hgallegos915]

wow that vris tunner rocks.. where did u get it !



I say straight neck i dunno cuz it would be nice to have the real deal ze lol.

Dont get the UDP. It messed with mine and it didnt run good so I tossed it out.

[Mi|<E]

Second on a no for the UnderDrivePulley (UDP). This causes the alternator and
water pump to work overtime and wear out faster. You do not want to risk
overheating a pimp engine for a meager gain from a smaller pulley. A better
options is to get a manual rack from the 323 (guide is on here somewhere) and get rid of the AC. That will free up more ponies and then you dont have to worry about the crappy
leaky GS rack. Plus only one belt ! yay for simplifying!

[Mooneggs]

A better
options is to get a manual rack from the 323 (guide is on here somewhere) and get rid of the AC. That will free up more ponies and then you dont have to worry about the crappy
leaky GS rack. Plus only one belt ! yay for simplifying!

thanks for the input on the UDP guys, it confirms my suspicions! and Hector once I get a 3rd mx-3 that will be RHD then I will finally use a straight neck since the brake stuff is on the other side

Oh and Mike I had seriously thought about the manual rack but since I will be using this for autocross I would rather have a shorter lock to lock and I've never had a problem with my power steering racks in my mx-3's...

I've also updated my list as I will be using a millenia alternator and removing the A/C components!