MX3s Can't Drift...Good!

Boris · Post by **Boris** » December 13th, 2006, 11:01 pm

Yeah I think I'm done arguing too. This could go on forever.

Just cuz you've had an mx3 longer than Tunes. it doesn't mean you deserve to be here more. It's about who does more for the site, and I think Tunes contributes a little more knowledge than you, sorry.

And btw an MR2 is made by Toyota (not american), and if I had the $$ to trade my mx for an MR2 I would as well, in a second lol.

mitmaks · Post by **mitmaks** » December 13th, 2006, 11:01 pm

Mx-3 is great car for its era. You have to be disappointed that there are MANY other better cars ou there than mx-3 (both FWD and RWD)
You have opinion that FWD mx-3 is better than RWD cars. This is just an opinion. It doesn't mean its true. People here trying to correct you and you should take advise from them. This board is for educations purposes, if you start feeding everyone your opinion about things doesnt mean its true. You have to acknowledge the facts.

Here's everything you need to know about FWD vs RWD. Please stop non-sense argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear-wheel_drive

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 13th, 2006, 11:31 pm

This is a sad day for us original MX3 owners! I guess I am like a dinosaur that refuses to die. The future has come faster than I thought! Even though I love my MX3, it cannot compete against Formula One RWD race cars. Woe is me!

People who hate FWD MX3s, yet own them, will have to endure several more years until they can afford cool RWD Italian Supercars. Look out then!! They can mortgage their homes to own a car that kicks butt in the summer months! That's really smart!

hharb · Post by **hharb** » December 13th, 2006, 11:56 pm

I understand where Red Egg is coming from but hey if you had the money to buy a super RWD car i'm sure you would, and yes RWD are superior cars, but comparing the cost, i would stick to my mx3 as long as i could.

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » December 14th, 2006, 12:32 am

Red Egg wrote:Tunes67 & Nd4SpdSe: you are so smug in your opinion that you cannot concede that FWD may have its advantages for MOST drivers.

Most drivers are *NOT* race car drivers, of any type. These are daily drivers who use their car to get from Point-A to Point-B, that's it that's all. These drivers barely push their car to see the benefits of RWD. Yes, as we've mentioned, FWD is advantageous is those typical scenarios, but in the large majority of racing scenarios, FWD is a disadvantage.

Red Egg wrote:
Tunes67 wants me to go away. Why should I? I've owned an MX3 since late 1991. I have more right to be here than he does. Tunes67 would trade his MX3 for a RWD American-made fart-box in a second, yet I think the MX3 is the greatest car ever. He should be the one to leave, not me

Just cause you had it longer doesn't give you more right. He even has 2 Mx-3's, and on his GS, converted it from automatic to a manual. He's a talented Mx-3 owner who has contributed in a positive way to this community.

Red Egg wrote:
Dipsticks who hate FWD MX3s, yet own them, will have to endure several more years until they can afford cool RWD Italian Supercars. Look out then!! They can mortgage their homes to own a car that kicks butt in the summer months! That's really smart!

Have you see that list of items in my signature. As you can tell, a significant amount of work has done into her. According to the Mx-3 Garage of my vehicle I've setup (.http://www.mx-3.com/phpbb2/garage.php?m ... icle&CID=7). I've spend at least C$20'000 on her. So I definitely don't hate FWD or Mx-3's. I love my Mx-3, I enjoy driving her, and working on her as well. Check out the pictures below:

.

Unlike you, in which i bet your Mx-3 has never seen a race track except for the parking lot in the 15 years you've owned it. In the 5 years I've owned mine, I have, so I'm quite aware of what the Mx-3 can do in real world racing situations. Instead of spewing articles that dont even really prove your point, get out there and get some real world experience.

Consideing what I've spend, I could probably afford a decent sports car, but I choose not to. Although the FWD isn't the best racing platform, I do believe it can be competitive, however my main goal is to have fun, and I'm having a hellova good time racing her, and learning building her up as well.

Red Egg wrote:
I am willing to let this go, but it is crummy to be attacked for having a different opinion

Difference in opinion, but ignoring the plain and simple facts.

If you want to prove your facts, every May, usually May24 weekend, the Rx-7 club organizes a Mazda meet in Ottawa. It's a 2 days event. The first is the show and a BBQ, the second day is a balls-to-the-walls cruise in the mountail Quebec country side. I guarantee you that you can't keep up with the fast group FB (1979-1985) Rx-7's. They weight just under 2600lbs and the Fuel Injected verisons made 135hp, very simiar to weight and power to the v6 Mx-3, but when your struggling to keep up, you'll see why when your "tip-towing on the front axle", as one Rx-7 owner said, who drove is Nissan Sentra SE-R because he was unable to get his Rx-7 ready in time. I had this experience the first time i went to this meet almost 5 years ago, and my Mx-3 GS was completely stock at the time, and there was no slow group, it was keep up or get left behind and lost. try it for yourself next year. There will be a post in the Toronto Mx-3 section (and maybe even then "Mx-3 meets" section) regarding it as soon as details become available

And FYI, my Mx-3 is a summer car only.

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hharb · Post by **hharb** » December 14th, 2006, 12:42 am

omg, why are you crucifying the poor guy, nobody should have to leave the forum for any reason, and God, it's just a stupid argument, if he thinks FWD is better, well maybe FWD fits his driving style better, maybe he doesn't race and he hates it when a car drifts... whatever his reasons are he is entitled not to change his mind, i mean just respect his opinion even if you think it's silly, cuz well maybe he thinks your opinion is silly too, bottom line just stop fighting about it, it's a dead argument, and it's hard for you to convince each other, so yeah end it peacefully by agreeing to disagree, maybe you can meet some day and show some real life demonstrations to convince one another...

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 14th, 2006, 11:29 am

Tunes67 wrote:Seriously.. this argument is getting seriously retarded. Dude.. you need to check yourself into a mental institution. Red Egg, you can continue to tell yourself how much FWD is better.. you're completely dillusional and moronic to believe this.

To the rest of the posters in this thread.. you cannot instruct an insane person to be sane. Its not possible. He needs medication and therapy. If everyone stops posting here.. maybe he will go away, but in all likelyhood it will just somehow make his twisted little mind believe he was right all along. This makes me want to sell my MX-3s and buy a MR2.

Tunes67

I think our difference of opinion stems from the fact that you guys are racers and I am not. RWD is therefore more important to you since it would allow you to power slide around corners (assuming you have the skills) and get more rear-momentum traction at the track.

As a regular driver, road control is important to me and therefore so is FWD (or AWD). I am happy with my car's FWD in the winter. When I have the snow tires on, it is almost impossible to get stuck even in the deepest snow! My car is not modified in any major way and I would not swap my K8 engine because it's one of the reasons I bought the car. It's like driving a piece of history being the smallest production V6 engines ever.

The title of this thread is "MX3s can't drift....good!" The whole idea of this thread was to discuss the benefits and disadvantages of this fact. The thread turn into a racing discussion which complicated the comparison. Why are there no RWD cars in rally yet there is a whole FWD division? (hypothetical question; please do not answer).

I thought the article on the two Dodge Daytonas, one FWD and one RWD is interesting and points out the benefits and flaws of each. The surprising aspect of the article is that FWD didn't get trashed by the author as I expected.

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 14th, 2006, 5:49 pm

Fishtailing (also called tank slapping) is a problem with rear wheel drive vehicles. The problem occurs on low grip surfaces (wet road, ice, snow, gravel, etc) or when applying too much power. During fishtailing, the rear end of the car will swing from side to side as the driver attempts to compensate. In drifting, controlled fishtailing (power slide) is considered a good thing.

A similar behavior occurs in heavy braking, because of weight transfer, depending on the distribution of the braking force and on the weight distribution, but independent of which wheels are being driven. From Wikipedia

Boris · Post by **Boris** » December 14th, 2006, 7:05 pm

man, I think it's safe to say that everyone is sick of arguing with ya buddy. If you want I can quote about three hundred other sources saying why RWD is good. That would be really productive.

Red Egg · Post by **Red Egg** » December 14th, 2006, 9:20 pm

You don't have to post here if you do not want to. You don't have to read this thread either, if it angers you. I don't care if some people are tired of debating the subject. I'm just expressing my opinion and invite any open-minded people to take up the debate.

Front wheel drive car engines are positioned transversely which allows for a smaller engine compartment. However, as cars are more powerful these days, FWD becomes less attractive. Torque steer is a problem with FWD cars that exceed 250 hp. Since the MX3 GS has only 130 HP and even a KLZE-swapped MX3 has 196 hp, the car is well below the threshold of 250 hp. The Porsche 911 Turbo has 300+ hp so RWD is appropriate for that car.

Unlike RWD for winter driving, FWD allows you to apply a small amount of power to the front wheels while braking and keep the wheels turning, increasing your stopping and turning power. RWD has its place for full size cars with performance engines, like Cadillac, Lexus, & Mercedes.

This is a direct quote from University of Toronto, Affinity Magazine:
"FWD vehicles are also lighter, which means they tend to have better acceleration, braking, and fuel economy. And since the drive shaft doesn't need to run all the way underneath the car to reach the wheels from the engine, FWD cars can have more passenger room.
FWD cars tend to have better acceleration, braking, and fuel economy."

Finally, here is a video to showcase an advantage of FWD: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0313424097

Post by **Custommx3** » December 14th, 2006, 10:06 pm

Sorry guys, got complaints, topic is locked.

Lets please not argue, we all have opinions.