Help - Clutch pedal stuck after line replaced and bled

[neumann]

Per the history on this Thread:

http://www.mx-3.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=54160

I have installed the Stainless steel clutch line, a speedbleeder bleed screw, bled the line but if i leave the clutch pedal in the fully upright position it is impossible to depress again.

Is there something mechanical with the clutch pedal assembly that could be the problem?

Is my slave cylinder blown? There are no leaks or anything.

Helllllllllllllllllllp. I can't take it anymore

[hgallegos915]

well what happens whe you disconnect the slave cyl? does it depress? if it doesnt its master cyl problem.. why didnt u preplace the slave as i told you, its cheap around 45 dllrs or less or rebuild kit whick is WAY cheaper. Are you able to press the salve down with your finger? well a bit?

[neumann]

Hec

I value your opinion from reading many of your posts but I don't recall your post on this subject.

I may have been distracted because my initial suspicion was that the slave cylinder was blown. After folks like jschwauren suggested it was likely the clutch line I decided to tackle that. Seemed like a good idea as when I removed the old line there was a noticeable hole in the forward end.

I definitely had some issues in bleeding the clutch line but after getting the speed bleeder, it went reasonably smoothly. Someone else questioned why I would waste $10 on a speedbleeder plus a fitted hose but it made that job much easier. I would certainly not be averse to the $9 slave cylinder rebuild kit or or $30-$40 for the part itself. I just was not sure - and still am not sure - that it was bad.

There is now about an inch of play in the clutch pedal and it springs back up on its own from that inch of travel. Pushing on the slave cylinder with my finger does not net any movement. I have not tried disconnecting the slave cylinder yet (at the fitting for the clutch line?)

[hgallegos915]

hmmm ok I just went to my car and pushed the slave cylinder with my hand and it went it to almost half in. It didnt retract until i pushed the clutch. Im kinda stumped.. i guess what i would do is disconect the clutch line, then see if its still stuck and it it isnt , its gotta ba that slave. If its still stuck after you removed it then its the master cyl? just a tought.

[neumann]

Someone suggested to me that the clutch is stuck to the flywheel. I guess this might explain nothing moving. The car sat for 3 - 4 months before I started it up. It just seems odd. It had been left in neutral with the handbrake off and the wheel chucks on the rear. I have stored cars over the winter before without problems.

Thoughts anyone? It will be Saturday before I get time during daylight to get at it again.

[neumann]

Someone suggested to me that the clutch is stuck to the flywheel. I guess this might explain nothing moving. The car sat for 3 - 4 months before I started it up. It just seems odd. It had been left in neutral with the handbrake off and the wheel chucks on the rear. I have stored cars over the winter before without problems.

Thoughts anyone? It will be Saturday before I get time during daylight to get at it again.

On the weekend, i loosened the clutch slave bleed screw and depressed the clutch pedal. It moves freely down when the system is open, although it has to be pulled back up. When the bleed screw is closed the pedal will not depress.

I started the car, put on the hand brake, stood poised above the brake pedal and pulled the clutch pedal back up with a rope. Nothing happened. Methinks this means the clutch is not releasing, hence the slave cylinder is shot, which was my original suspicion. There are no leaks from anywhere but the behaviour it demonstrates seems to be consistent with the notion the the clutch is not releasing.

I found a source of the slave cylinder part and ordered it. I also ordered a master cylinder just in case, since the two combined were under $40 with shipping. My plan is to replace the slave cylinder and see if that helps, and if not to proceed with the master cylinder.

My major concern with any of this is just the re and re. It looks as though the actual work is pretty straightfrward, just getting at it is a pain. I literally have to stick my feet out the door of my garage while working under the car. The master cylinder looks pretty easy to get at but the slave cylinder concerns me. I guess I will replace the crank position sensor while I am down there. I have looked at the online shop manual,and I have the Haynes manual but any tips on approach would be appreciated. Access to the areas being worked on and minimizing removal of parts that I could screw up in reinstalling are the key drivers.

[max kl]

well it could be a seized slave cylinder. just make shure the clutch fork will move once the slave cylinder is lossend from the trans. if the arm wont move than the problem is inside of the bellhousing. ie. clutch or linkage

[PATDIESEL]

I wouldn't think that the clutch is stuck to the flywheel, but I've seen funnier things. I'd guess that the slave is the issue. As for being able to puch it in by hand, if you can I'd say it is bad. (not the other way around) I have to use a bench vise to compress mine at all...
Was the pedal the same before the spoeed bleeder? I read the other post, but cannot remember now what you said.
Did you recently change the clutch? If not I'd bet my next paycheck you need a new slave or the speed bleeder is in the way of some internal part of the slave.

[neumann]

I am also tending to think it is the slave cylinder. It was my first guess originally, even before someone gave me assistance to determine that the clutch line was bad. I replaced it and the old part definitely had a leak, but it may have led me away from looking further at the slave.

The clutch was changed a year and a half ago by the P.O. He put about 6,000 km on it and i put about 5,000 km so its not too old nor too new.

The pedal behaved more or less the same after the clutch line was replaced but before the speedbleeder screw was installed and the same way now that the speedbleeder screw is installed. There may be a slight difference now in that the pedal will depress about an inch and come back on its own. After that it is like a rock. If I loosen the bleed screw I can depress the pedal but it will not come back up.

Basically the speedbleeder screw has not changed anything other than make bleeding easier.

So generally I suspect the slave cylinder. The part is on its way to me now. I am not exactly competent as a mechanic so while I dread replacing it myself (really its just the access issues) I expect I will be doing it on the weekend.

If the clutch fork will not move when i remove the existing slave, what should i do, other than panic and cry like a baby?

[PATDIESEL]

If you replace the slave and it still won't move I'd say you are stuck with either taking it somewhere to be looked at or removing the trans to have a look at the clutch. However, since the clutch has a good amount of use and it hasn't acted up before I doubt it would have frozen while sitting. Make sure that the fork is in the correct position. It may have gotten moved if you removed the salve during the clutch line job. If you didn't remove the slave then I'd say it is not likely the problem. The fork is a simple pivot point to transfer the force of the hydrolic cylinder of the slave to the clutch. Not much that can go wrong there.

[neumann]

Okay, so i have the new clutch slave cylinder and I start to go throught the replacement.

Initially my problem is just that the screw holding the line into the slave cylinder just below the bleed screw is seized. This is the clutch pipe SST as deoicted on page h-013 of the online shop manual. It appears top be a 10mm screw. but a 10mm combinaton wrench will not budge it and threatens to strip the screw. I hate the fact that none of the docs actually seems to indicate sizing of stock fittings. I understand why the Chilton manual is vague, because it also covers, escort, probe etc.

I tried a couple of other sizes: 8 mm is defintitely too small and so is a 3/8" which is about 9.5mm so 10mm has to be right. However as with other fittings i have found on this car it appears to be made of putty which will strip down.

The fact that this is the pipe fitting means I can't slip a box wrench or a socket over the screw.

I think the cumulative effect of 12 canadian winters has taken its toll as most things are seized by rust. So i have liberally sprayed it with penetrating oil and let sit. But i really need to get this running.

Meanwhile i replaced the crank position sensor. That went surprisingly well.

Anyhow. if anyone can advise:
Is the SST a 10mm fitting?
Any tips, on what I should try?

[max kl]

yes it and most all of the hydro lines on the car are 10mm. you ned a 10mm line wrench. it is like a box end wrench with a slit in it so you can get ti around the line.

[PATDIESEL]

Box wrenches are a life saver. Unless you want to have to teplace the whole line get a box wrench. They hold the fitting much better than a open ended wrench. The SST they are calling for is a box wrench.

[wagZE]

did u try checking the clutch pedal & or adjusting it?

[neumann]

Clutch pedal appears fine. Spring is intact, and range of travel is normal. Nothing appears obviously wrong. When the bleeder screw is openthe pedal moves fine. when closed not at all. The issue appears to be hydraulic.

I picked up a set of 5 flare nut wrenches on sale at Princess Auto in Brampton for $19.99 since it covered common sizes between 10mm and 17mm as well as some SAE sizes, but i will not have time to try to replace the Slave Cylinder until Saturday.