Clutch Line replace was Limp clutch pedal automotive viagara

[neumann]

Car is a 1994 MX-3 GS with 5 speed manual which serves as my winter car. I bought it last fall. It has been stored since May in my garage, wheels blocked, in neutral.

I went to start it up today just to move the wheels a bit to try and avoid flat spotting. The clutch was extremely stiff. My other car has a much stiffer clutch so it may not have occurred to me how wacked it was. When I pressed on the clutch it suddenly came loose and went all the way to the floor and remained fully depressed until I pulled it back up manually. I was kind of alarmed and just let the car run for a minute.

What does this sound like? Something hydraulic? It looks like a small quantity of fluid has leaked out below the battery. Do I need a replacement slave cylinder? Master cylinder? Is there anything mechanical I have busted?

Suggestions on troubleshooting and actions most appreciated. Since the car isn't going anywhere I guess I will do it myself. Luckily I have time before i need to use the car.

Edit, not that it is related but the previous owner replaced the clutch about 6 months before I bought it. The clutch has less than 10,000 km on it. I replaced the manual transmission fluid myself in January. It has maybe 4,000 km on it.

[Devlin]

sounds like master cylinder if there's fluid up near the battery
the slave is down near the tranny

[neumann]

I can't see the leak but it looks like it is coming from lower down. there is a stain on the floor roughly aligned with the front tire but a foot or so inboard and while I don't see fluid leak up top, anything below the battery area has obvious indications of fresh spill. Total volume looks like a couple of ounces.

To top it off I pumped the clutch pedal a couple of times and the brake fluid reservoir level went down.

I am thinking that this means the slave cylinder. How big a deal is the DIY replacement. I don't have much skill but I do have time before I put this on the road. I read the tech manual but the description is pretty net.

[DJ]

This just happened to me also, for me it was the clutch line that had a leak.

[jschrauwen]

There's a rubber clutch line that goes from the MC and spans the gap from the firewall to the tranny. From the tranny to the slave cylinder it's solid line. Age and poor engine mounts will account for failure of the clutch line. Be aware that the brake MC serves as the same reservoir as the clutch's. If you're going to keep the MX for some time, you can get a teflon braided SS clutch line by itself and is near the same price as an oem Mazda clutch line. Look to Goodridge for ISO, DOT and TUV approved lines.

[neumann]

I managed to get a chance to pull the battery today and it looks to me like the clutch hose has developed a leak right at the forward connection, where the connector crimps on. I can't really tell if the slave cylinder is okay but at least for the moment it looks like the clutch line is bad.

Ironically while I originally was not pressed for time since this is a winter car, I now need to move the car out of the garage and store it at the inlaws for three weeks while some work is done on my house. I need the garage room to store materials and contractor tools. So other than buying an overpriced Mazda rubber hose I plan to see what is the best part option I can get quickly. I would prefer a stainless steel line (do this once).

Any pointers from the experts on how to proceed? Do I just need to remove and replace the line and bleed the system? I appear to have lost about 2 ounces of fluid (brake reservoir is mid way between the fill lines). Do i need to flush and replace fluid, oir just top up? Sorry for the basic level of the questions

[Hoodzy]

I just got my SS clutch line from the GB a few days ago and i'm hardcore newb and i'm assuming that this is the line i'm going to be replacing??
it seems that its only held on with clamps and my new line has screw on ends?
i've never bled anything in my life b4.. anyone have a quick walkthrough on how i should take this hose off and replace it then bleed if need be?

thanks!

[neumann]

I just got my SS clutch line from the GB a few days ago and i'm hardcore newb and i'm assuming that this is the line i'm going to be replacing??
it seems that its only held on with clamps and my new line has screw on ends?
i've never bled anything in my life b4.. anyone have a quick walkthrough on how i should take this hose off and replace it then bleed if need be?

Hoodzy

Hopefully somebody like jschrauwen who really knows his stuff will weigh in to clarify.

I am a newb and not mechanically skilled, so absolutely do not take my advice without considerable second sourcing but what you are picturing appears to be the line running from the brake reservoir to the clutch master cylinder. This appears to be intact on my car. What appears to be leaking on my car is a hose running part of the way from the clutch master cylinder to the clutch release cylinder (slave cylinder). This is located below the battery rather than rearward behind the battery.

I am finding it difficult to get my bearings because the sources I have (online shop manual, Chilton manual) all have some elements of vagueness due to variation in design of the overall hydraulic systems for brakes and clutch. Most of the info i have is somewhat generic with notes or comments to cover the variaions orf 4cyl manual, 4 cyl ATX, 6cyl manual, 6 cyl ATX, 6cyl manual with ABS, 6 cyl ATX without ABS, Ford Probe, Protege, MX-6 etc etc etc

The terminology - Clutch vs Brake cylinders, master vs slave (or release) cylinders etc - makes it tough for idiots like me to keep things straight. I faced the same challenge in removing and replacing my Porsche's radiator temperature sensor. There are four different temperature related sensors on that car and they are all interchangeably referred to casually as temperature sensors, thermostats or temperature switches (although at least the offical Porsche documents have consistent nomenclature). I had the same problem, though because all of the docs I had essentially had the NA car as a reference with vague or contradictory exceptions for the Turbo.
The fact that one of the parts was unique to the turbo and one was similar but just ever so slightly different made it a pain.

Long and short, i did everything at a tentative snail's pace. It probably took me three or four hours just cause I worried about every step. Now that I have done it once I could do it again in 20 -30 minutes.

I don't have the clutch line part yet so I am not in a position to do the work, but I do hope to clarify in the next couple of days exactly what I am going to be doing.

If it helps to clarify the specifics of the hydraulic connections, my car is the 1994 GS V6, manual trans (duh) without ABS

ANy feedback apreciated.

[jschrauwen]

Hopefully somebody like jschrauwen who really knows his stuff will weigh in to clarify.

OK, my head is swelling here .... LOL. But don't stop there ..... LOL.

OK, how do we approach this. BTW, that clamped rubber line is not the clutch line your looking for.
OK, lets stand by the drivers side front wheel and look down the side of the battery. Almost directly inline with the battery and below it is the body side hard mounting spot for one end of the flexable clutch line.
Now move to the front of the car and look towards the rear portion of the transmission. Just beside and slightly to the rear of the tranny/engine mount is the terminating spot of the flexable clutch line. It basically travels under the battery to span the solid part of the body to the solid part of the engine. From there it's another solid steel line to the front of the tranny where the slave cylinder is.

Hoodzy, those fittings are a direct fit to it's mating parts. Please don't ask me to give a breakdown on how to bleed a hydraulic line. That's just a little bit too involved and for the most part is a generic type of job ... more or less. It's not really much different than bleeding brakes. Of special note, during the bleeding process, ensure that the cap to the brake fluid reservoir is removed, and surround it with rags to prevent any overflows or spillage since brake fluid does nasty stuff to paint. DO NOT... let me say that again, DO NOT let that reservoir level reach any lower than 1/4 to 1/2 or you may end up introducing air into the system that could get into the brake system since the clutch and brakes use the same reservoir. There are some posts that address brake/clutch bleeding. Speedbleeders would be a handy thing if a second body is not around to help.
I hope this helps.

[neumann]

I hope this helps.[/color]

I think it absolutely does. Sounds exactly like what I saw two days ago when I pulled the battery and looked below. I can see a leak coming from the forward end where the flexible line couples to the solid line.

I kinda figured that I had it right, but given my level of inexpertise, I didn't want to warn off hoodzy on my vague half assed understanding

[neumann]

I got a steel replacement clutch line, removed the hood and battery, disconnected the clutch line and removed the two brackets that hold each end of the clutch line to the chassis and drivetrain respectively (where the flexible clutch line connects to the solid lines from the master cylinder near the firewall and the slave cylinder near the transmission.

The bracket-y things and the clips that hold the clutch line in place were horribly rusted. I guess that 12 CAnadian Winters full of road salt would do that. I clenaed them as much as possible with penetrating oil and a brass wire brush

Anyhow the line was leaking just where I suspected, just short of the fitting that connects to the slave cylinder. I attached the new line to the bracket fittings and then reinstalled the whole assembly, first connecting the brackets to the car, then coupling the fixed solid lines with the new clutch line, then tightening everything up.

So far so good. Now I guess I have to bleed the line. At the slave cylinder?

Any pointers on bleeding the line and finishing the job would be appreciated.

[jschrauwen]

Great work neumann!! I failed to mention that one must approach the rubber line removal very gingerly. Like you said, those parts can get very corroded and might break if patience isn't applied.
Bleeding in the normal manner (2 man approach) like brakes. Must always keep the brake fluid reservoir topped up at all times while this is going on of course. There are "speedbleeders" out there that are supposed to be helpfull for one man operations too. That info is available through a search on this BB also. Should be quite straight forward though.

John

[neumann]

Thanks. I did the removal and install work in the morning, but it got danged humid this afternoon. After hooking up the line I went off to pickup some extra DOT 3 brake fluid (and found CDN Tire had a sale on the 4.4 Litre jug of Castrol GTX and a Fram Filter for $9.99).

I am just having trouble with the ergonomics of loosening the slave cylinder bleeder screw. My access situation maybe a little different since the stock airbox has been replaced by a K&N. Like other things, the screw is fairly heavily rusted and seized. I can get a combination wrench (I think 8mm?) on a nut under the bleeder screw. Or so I think. This appears to be the screw above where the solid line enters the slave cylinder. Given the ergonomics i can't get a lot of leverage.

I am kinda thinking that if I can get the screw loosened I should be okay, but I am struggling a bit at this point. I always get a little tentative trying to free rusted parts, especially when I am unsure of exactly what I am doing.