Alignment (need help)

slimmyslim1420 · Post by **slimmyslim1420** » May 17th, 2006, 8:21 pm

I just got finished installing my zx2 struts with eibach spring kit. Now I need an alignment. A friend of mine is going to school for auto mechanics and he can do the alignment for free but there is a problem. The machine they have is designed only to line the car up to factory specifications. His instructor said there is a mathematical equation you can use to find out the new angles but he dosen't know what it is. So if anyone on here knows that equation or possibly the angles I need, it would be helpful.
thanks

PATDIESEL · Post by **PATDIESEL** » May 18th, 2006, 1:47 am

Why do you want other than stock specs anyway? More camber will only ruin tires faster and it is not helpful unless you knwo what settings you want.
Also, I've never heard of a machine that will only do stock specs. Most of the time they read the camber and you adjust it. You have to know what stock specs are (usually prgrammed to read out on the machine).
If he really cannot do it just pay for it. It usually coss about 70-100 bucks. Money is money I know, but I'm not sure I would trust someone to do it mathmatically.

slimmyslim1420 · Post by **slimmyslim1420** » May 18th, 2006, 9:06 am

PATDIESEL wrote:Why do you want other than stock specs anyway? More camber will only ruin tires faster and it is not helpful unless you knwo what settings you want.
Also, I've never heard of a machine that will only do stock specs. Most of the time they read the camber and you adjust it. You have to know what stock specs are (usually prgrammed to read out on the machine).
If he really cannot do it just pay for it. It usually coss about 70-100 bucks. Money is money I know, but I'm not sure I would trust someone to do it mathmatically.

Well his instructor said when you lower it, it changes the specs so stock would no longer work. See the machine just shoots out lasers to where the stock specs would be for you to adjust it to. So I need the new numbers to enter in the computer, so that it give out lasers to the new specs. Well i guess I should have worded that different. Its not just designed for stock specs, but the only ones they can get from there computer are stock. You can enter new numbers and go with them.

lakersfan1 · Post by **lakersfan1** » May 18th, 2006, 9:24 am

First, if you haven't gotten camber bolts already, go get those. I believe Pep Boys has Eibach ones. Then, use the camber bolts to get as close as possible on camber. If you're off a 1/2 degree, not big deal.

Then, get the toe to spec. No more, no less since this will effect your handling the most. Too much one way or the other and your car may get squirrely and nervous on the road.

Then, don't even worry about caster. You can't really adjust it anyways without messing with the other settings you made, and the minor variations in caster aren't going to make any noticable difference anyways.

PATDIESEL · Post by **PATDIESEL** » May 19th, 2006, 12:44 am

The "lasers" (Austin Powers) aim at the attached reflecters to the wheels. The reading comes from the angle the machine gets the return "laser" at. I cannot see how the heigth (which the machine doesnt know since it reads from the wheels only) would make a difference. You still adjust the camber until it reads within stock specs. The stock specs don't change since you still want a certain amount of negative camber.
I'm no expert, but mayeb take this advice and ask someone else at another alignment place for verification. Don't tell them you are not bringing your car to them, just tell them that someone told you "if my car is lowered I cannot use a regular alignment machine, that the tech would have to do manual mathmatical equations to set the camber" and "is that true or does lowering the car effect the way the machine reads the camber".

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » May 21st, 2006, 12:26 pm

Perhaps finding another alignmaet shop would be in order. All of what LF1 and Pat have said are absolutely true. Got a complete one done last Spring witha shop that uses a fairly new laser unit. The lowering only really affects the camber in most cases. It creates too much negative camber that those camber bolts should correct given the amount or degree of lowering there will or should be corresponding camber adjusting bolts that have enough affset to them to bring the alignment back to factory specs. That's what you want to shoot for. Not some new specs that this mechanic is asking you for....there is no new specs to shoot for....only the factory ones. If he's insistant on you providing that info to him to correctly align, than I'd say, go somewhere else. just my 2 pennies.

slimmyslim1420 · Post by **slimmyslim1420** » May 23rd, 2006, 4:21 pm

Well I had my friend go ahead and try to do the alignment to stock specs. Now i'm not sure if it was him or the machine but my rear toe is way off. The tires both point to the center of the car. So I'm going to an actual alignment shop tomorrow to get it fixed. After just a few short drives you can already see quite a bit of wear on the rear tires. The front is fine though so the stock specs should work, which is why I think he may have done it wrong. If they work on the front they should work on the back. Another question though is I have the alignment bolts installed from Eibach and my tires still lean inward toward the top of the car a little, how much play can you have in that before you run into problems?

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » May 23rd, 2006, 5:36 pm

slimmyslim1420 wrote:Well I had my friend go ahead and try to do the alignment to stock specs. Now i'm not sure if it was him or the machine but my rear toe is way off. The tires both point to the center of the car. So I'm going to an actual alignment shop tomorrow to get it fixed. After just a few short drives you can already see quite a bit of wear on the rear tires. The front is fine though so the stock specs should work, which is why I think he may have done it wrong. If they work on the front they should work on the back. Another question though is I have the alignment bolts installed from Eibach and my tires still lean inward toward the top of the car a little, how much play can you have in that before you run into problems?

Sounds like your taking short-cuts here and doing the old "my friend" thing. This may turn into costing more down the road by cutting corners like this. Get it done right the first time by the right people. You may see a new set of tires smoked within this summer by not doing it the right way. I believe there is supposed to be a very minor amount of toe in....but not much. If you can see tire wear that quick...you've got serious problems and I'd say "see ya" to your friend.
Specs wrt toe in, camber and caster settings are i believe in the online manual also. A quality alignment shop will have all the correct specs within it's computerized database to correctly do your alignment. If they don't.... find another shop.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » June 2nd, 2006, 12:29 am

just get er done right