This forum is for discussion of topics relating to MX-3 lighting such as Headlights, Tail lights, Accessory Lights, Interior Lights, Etc. For example, Rear Euro Altezza Style Tail lights, Headlight units, LED's, HID's, Bulbs, Interior lights, Neons, Strobes, Auxillary Lights/Fogs or anything filament and gas discharge related.
Also anything dealing with the elctrical system.
I`m very much agreeing with all the people saying it`s too expensive.
We all know it costs lots to make something like this, and thats why no company as of yet have made any. eg. they dont see any way of actually making any profit on this.
That said, I have done the civic projector conversion, and I`m more than happy with that result, so I`m sticking with those for sure.
$129 + shipping and some work compared to $800+ + shipping... it just doesnt match
nope-mx3 wrote:$129 + shipping and some work nope-mx3
SOME WORK??????? - cutting bumper, cutting behind head light, cutting hood, cutting fender.....oh ya, almost forgot all the LITTLE things, complete re-wiring, body shop work for bumper, fender and hood, have to repaint too right. Cost...lets see 129 for headlights, about 20 for wiring, connectors etc, body shop to cut and mount unit - no less than 1 days work @ average $40/hr (that's a cheap hourly rate, want a good body man-$$$) = 320, prep, primer and paint fender, bumper and hood = 300minimum. Rough estimate 300+320+20+129=$.749 And this is low balling all,of those figures. REMEMBER....PLUG-N-PLAY.....no cutting, no painting, no re-wiring.
Nope-mx3, I know your ride looks outstanding but if I remember, did you not do all of the body work your self including paint perhaps. Those that have the means and the abilities to do it on yoyr own...hey, have at it. For the AVERAGE person this is not possible. If someone, like the majority would have to pay someone to do this it would me much more expensive IMO.
Nope if you did a lot of the work yourself you failed to mention it or payed some one to do some work, again yo failed to mention it. Saying that your conversion costs you $129 is grossly missleading. Lets try to help the greater good of this BB rather than shoot it down. Tatsu's trying to do a good thing. If one is suspect about a particular BB member than do a search on that persons previous posts to get a better understanding of that person. You'll find Tatsu has has been instrumantal in providing some extremely well researched information and insightfull solutions to some very difficult problems on this BB.
BE A SUPPORTER!!!
Chronicle-Rod wrote:I thought about it until I saw the price. It's crazy to think that people will pay that, more than their car is probably worth in many cases, for projectors - especially when a conversion to Civic lights will be cheaper, even at a body shop.
You can talk "low volume" and "bang for your buck" all you want - but the reality is that those prices are just unrealistic for the average MX3 owner, even the ones on this forum - who generally aren't the average owners.
I can think of a lot of other things that money would put on, under or in my car that would give me a lot more "bang for my buck" than these lights.
Not to rain too much on your parade, and if you can get people to go for it, more power to you, but I just can't see my way clear to doing it. Like I said, I did the Civic conversion, and I'm more than happy with the lighting performance AND what it cost me.
How much were the lights,how much for the shipping, how much for the body shop to cut-n-carve the bumper, fender, and hood, how much to prep, primer and paint the modified bumper, fender and hood, how much for the shop to re-wire and install the light units, how much for them to put all the other parts back on.
Cheaper by having a shop do it....not in my part of the country. Unless the average BB member has his own body man and shop avaible for free and all of the necessary materials for the install than I would say, sure it's cheaper. Since you're referring to the average MX3 owner, I thought it prudent for me to do likewise.
Cheaper....no frickin' way.
BTW, ever get into a small fender bender and have to replace a hood or fender or bumper and guess what you have to do all over again.
Too expensive...well I guess it's amatter of priorities. Like you said about the average MX3 owner. Would this be thr same average MX3 owner that would drop over 1,000 in ICE components...damm skippy it would. Explain the logic in that. I can bust my ear drums while I drive but I can't see where the hell I'm going because of crappy lights...extreme example, sure it is but you get my point.
Chronical Rod I'm not sure if a pattern is going to evolve here wrt those that already have done the Civic conversion, but I'm seeing posts that are not supportive in any fashion...and that's discouraging. You, more than most appreciate the necessity and benefits of upgrading our lighting system by converting to a projector type system. Why would you not be a stronger supporter in this cause?
I know you don't have them overpriced and they are worth what you are charging and if you charged much less you wouldnt make any profit. But I guarantee that you are not gonna get more then a hand full of people on here that are able to afford/willing to spend that kind of cash for headlights. Fact of the matter is MOST mx3 owners dont have much money, thats why we're driving mx3's and not vipers, sti's etc....
Wow, for someone who hasn't done the conversion, you sure think you know a lot about it. There's no "total rewiring" needed, for example. The whole thing, including the lights, cost me around $450-500.
You want us to blindly support this outrageously expensive endeavour, yet blindly bash what we did instead?
I told him that if he can get the support, more power to him - but it's not cost-effective, nor is it affordable to the majority of people here. That's not bashing, that's reality. If he wants people to blow sunshine up his @$$ about how great an idea it is, I'm sure people could do that - but the orders still wouldn't come in any faster.
still interested, but ill have to save for insurance so I can drive with those on my mx3 lol, will have to open up separate insurance account just for projectors.
and yes, when you dont do work yourself and say ooo civic projectors for $129, misleading. If you do work yourself youll know thats its not true
Magnum s/s lines, strut bars, carbon fiber bezel, indiglow gauge, Sony Xplod, inverted c/f hood, SRD lower tie bar '93 GS SE '95 Cobra SVT #2722 '68 Charger R/T 440 http://www.cardomain.com/id/mitmaks
Oh, I would like to mention a few things here...... I have never done this before but feel that time finally has come for this.
I don't really know what it is but it seems to me that "projector" is such a universal term here that people just think that anything with a round thick curved glass lens sticking out of a light is a projector. Even in a world of world class optics, projectors differ greatly.
Point in question..... "Civic Projectors". It's that good old "Show vs Go". "Civic projectors" are show, even if at all, because of fitment. "Civic Projectors" are absolute garbage of poor construction with inferior materials and utilize prehistoric optics and fog light bulbs.
To all those crafty individuals that converted their lights into with "Civic Projectors" for $129.00 I challenge you to show me how they perform. And I know that a lot can be done with Photoshop, but for real, take some pictures. I asked this before and no one have done this properly. Go find a nice flat white wall, put your car against it at 25-30 ft and snap some pictures and then do the same on a dark road to show down the road illumination. I hope someone will prove me wrong, I really do.
When people compare their "Civic Projectors" to what is attempted by Tatsu they are comparing apples and oranges in price and quality. I say that I can have cheaper than $129 projectors on my car and that "Civic projectors are way too expensive. My circles painted on my light covers are way cheaper than "Civic Projectors". So don't waste your money on "Civic Projectors", paint circles instead and you don't even need to re-wire your car.
That's where you go off the path into Crazyland, population - you.
Do you REALLY think people will pay that much for lighting - no matter how good it is - for an MX3?
And again, if you don't have a car with the Civic conversion, or have never seen one, why are you running down the quality?
NOBODY IS ARGUING THE SUPPOSED QUALITY - what we're saying is that, no matter the quality, that price point is ridiculous for an outdated car with limited appeal outside this board.
when we installed my civic projectors, we cut the housing, the bumper, and just a small piece on the metal behind the light. No cutting on hood, fender etc.
There was absolutely no rewiring, I just plugged my original lead into the civic lead, no need for adapters or cutting and splicing anything.
of course, this isn`t a mod for everybody, but I`m lucky enough to have a very good friend who work as a bodyshop mechanic, so he helped me with all the cutting home in the garage.
It`s very much doable for a lot less than $500, I`m guessing mine cost about $300 (but I got screwed on shipping, as I chose the wrong shipping company),
Even so, I`m not even close to $700
I`ll try to take some pics of the lights on a wall....
They are aimed perfectly, just as the stock headlight.
(both low and high beam)
everyone who wants these, lets start saving up now. Id really love some better lighting for my mx3 when driving at night, and right now its my daily driver and i need good lighting.
Magnum s/s lines, strut bars, carbon fiber bezel, indiglow gauge, Sony Xplod, inverted c/f hood, SRD lower tie bar '93 GS SE '95 Cobra SVT #2722 '68 Charger R/T 440 http://www.cardomain.com/id/mitmaks
This is a obvious, timeless debate for the MX3 family here and unless we do decide to do a group buy and back it up with the funds for a pricey set of quality lights, further talks of this matter should come to a halt. For every topic that has ever been held here about this subject, it always ends with the conclusion that not enough people are willing to go onboard for such a high price, even though the quality of it merits the cost.
If you fall, then get back up........Luck favors the prepared
Mxmaz, I think you're just about bang on with those well chosen words.
Taras, thank god for stepping in. Unfortunately the majority of this board is not very conversant wrt lighting systems. And you're absolutely right when they try to place these lights into their proper perspective they are comparing apples to oranges.
Nope, of course there was no wiring to ammend, you have an E-Spec wiring harness that adapts to the civic lights, we (NA) run 9004 lights with a completely different wiring harness. Again, perhaps not intentional but none the less - misleading. Add on top of that, I believe that the US does not incorporate DRL and Canada does. Tatsu' lights will have taken that into consideration.
How long was your car tied up for doing the conversion? You said we a number of times clearly indicating that you didn't do it all or most? Did some of these friends do some stuff for free? Omitting certain details is also misleading.
chronical-Rod, "The whole thing, including the lights, cost me around $450-500." You took the lights to someone and said, here you go...install and return to me fully functional". And your saying the installer did everything for 300 to 350? I've got to meet your body man, what's his shop rate $10./hr. Or is he a bud of yours and cut you a deal, or a family relative?
"Do you REALLY think people will pay that much for lighting - no matter how good it is - for an MX3?" The wise, the educated and the informed who have a shmick about lighting or the merits of such will.
"NOBODY IS ARGUING THE SUPPOSED QUALITY - what we're saying is that, no matter the quality, that price point is ridiculous for an outdated car with limited appeal outside this board." Wait a minute, people are going to spend a minimum of 500 to 600 to have someone do a complete civic headlight conversion for them that will produce as Taras has explained marginal benefits, but they won't spend 750 on lighting that's exceeds todays standards.
jrors, "For every topic that has ever been held here about this subject, it always ends with the conclusion that not enough people are willing to go onboard for such a high price, even though the quality of it merits the cost." I wonder why that is. The only thing I can think of is a lack of understanding and knowledge. And you know the sad reality of this is is that, the AVAERAGE MX owner (ages 18-22?) will drop sometimes $750 to $1,000 on ICE without thinking about it, but won't consider investing the same amount in something that IMO is tangibly more important and needed - an unfortunate truism.
I'd link to think that out of the 8,584 registered MX-3.com users, there's got to be enough well informed and enlightened individuals that can appreciate the merits of this application. Those of us that are predominently non city dwellers like to avoid those little creatures that go bump in the night, or like to see down that dark country road and bend, or be able to have reasonable visability during the rain or snow.
As for our J-Spec/E-Spec members, well their limitations are a lot less than that of the NA-Spec members due to the different reflective lense characteristics and the usage of the H4 bulb and not the 9004 of the NA-Spec units. I can say this after using my J-Spec lights now for the past 4 months. I previously used the 9004 with top of the line PIAA bulbs (can't get much better than those). My J-Spec units using a good phillips bulb (read very inexpensive) produces a quality and pattern of light that far surpasses my NA-Spec unit's. Although I won't discredit our overseas members, it's obvious that their feedback wrt this topic must bear in mind my previous statement.
I'll guestimate that a civic conversion will garner about a 5% to 10% improvement maybe 15%, over the MX 9004 units. I'll also guestimate that Tatsu's unit's should garner about 30% to 35% improvement. I'll also look at the dollar cost for a civic conversion and benefits gained and weigh that against the dollar cost for Tatsu's units and the incumbant benefits thereof. You tell me which would be the smarter move. Like I said before, it's all about being educated or enlightened (no pun intended).
I should ask those that did the civic conversions, what was their motivator that made them want to do it in the first place. Were they actually seeking to improve their lighting situation?...I genuinely hope so. That being the case, I see no reason why they should not be in full support of this objective. They must be able to see the benefits in this. Throw on top of this that this new lighting system will out-perform any civic conversion hands down, no question about it. And to think that this conversion MAY be marginally more expensive than a civic conversion, the benefits will more than make up the difference in cost, without a doubt.
It may appear that I may be bashing civic convertee's, and that was never my intention. Actually quite the opposite, I applaud there dedication and efforts to improving their lot. They recognized an obvious defficiency within the MX and took steps to correct it the best way possible given the available sources. We now have the opportunity to establish that much desired and much needed source and Tatsu has taken up the gauntlet and the challenge to provide the MX community with something it's never had but always needed.
We need to give him support in this matter. I don't like to hear all of the complaints of how it's too expensive. It may be too expensive to them but that that's a relative issue. There are plenty of things I'd like too for my MX that are IMO too expensive FOR ME, but that does not make the item over-priced. If anyone knows anything about lighting systems, in fact it's priced just right. The winners will be the ones that truely see the value in all of this and the losers, the ones who will have their heads in the ground. Although I too have violated the purpose of this thread, which was to guage the interest in this project, it wasn't intended to be a platform to criticize Tatsu's efforts to do somthing good for the MX community. Should we not be a proponent in bettering our lot. If there are questions about the specifics of this project...great, post them. If there are complaints or statements of being too expensive, then don't post, these light units were never meant for you in the first place. Harsh words...yes they are. The informed few will understand.
Taras, almost time to drag up an old post and educate the masses...LOL
