Has anyone tried this???

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » April 27th, 2005, 6:33 pm

Incidentally, in almost all cases, the lowest octane is best for mileage. Most modern vehicles do not have high enough compression to justify using high octane fuels. The testing indicates best mileage is usually obtained with 85 or 87 octane gasoline. Too much octane causes a loss of power and economy. BUT too little octane causes the same things plus knocking. Listen carefully to your engine for tell-tale knocks or clicks when you start out from a light. The best mileage points to the correct octane when the engine is properly tuned. See your owners manual.

I dont have a owners manual to go by.. so I have no idea what mazda recommends for gas use in the MX-3.. however.. My engine is also not tuned just to factory specs.. I have advanced the timing a bit so that I can get better performance and mileage from my car. I am also running a K&N air filter.. and many folks are running CAI systems. Considering how low quality 87 oct gas is.. I would rather pay the extra $3-$4 a fill up to maintain a clean fuel system.

Also.. a side note on the Quote above..

Most modern vehicles do not have high enough compression to justify using high octane fuels

I dont know about your engine.. but mine runs a 9.0:1 compression ratio.. which is more than suffcient to take advantage of higher octane fuels. And even if I had a low compression ratio of say 7.5:1.. I would still run premium to keep crap from building up in my fuel system. You know fuel injectors can get clogged up.. ever wonder what clogs them up? Have you ever had to pay a shop to rebuild your fuel injectors? Have you ever priced a "New" set of fuel injectors? To me.. the few pennies saved from using low octane crap gas do not outweigh the potential long term costs that using the crap gas will eventually cost you. Why spend hundreds of $$$ doing aftermarket mods to your engine if you arent going to give it decent fuel to begin with? Anyway.. back to the test.

Please understand that even if I do or do not get results.. that it could be different with your particular engine.... there are a ton of variables here. Just thinking about how this experiment is supposed to work.. I believe that the best results would come from higher compression engines running the highest octane fuel. Does this mean we wont experience any gain? No.. it means that we wont experience the best possible gain. Also note.. the Neon experiment the article writer performed.. did you notice that he only drove the car at a static 50 miles per hour? Who drives that damn slow? If you drive that slow.. please kill yourself now and do the rest of us a favor

Now.. why I think higher octane gas would have the best results.. The premise of the article is that the acetone is supposed to lower the surface tension of the gasoline molecule. The acetone is going to do this regardless of what octane gas you run. Now.. we know that the higher the octane reading.. supposedly this indicates that the gas is more flammable right? That with a higher octane reading.. gasoline will burn hotter, cleaner & faster. Now.. when you add the acetone too it.. supposedly.. this means that it will also ignite easier... This will allow the gasoline to atomize more completely and evenly in your cylinders prior to compression. And this is where you are supposedly gaining horsepower and as a result.. increased mileage.

Now.. lets add a higher compression ratio into the mix.. we have fuel igniting easier, burning faster, cleaner & hotter.. and we know that the more this fuel is compressed.. the more powerful the resulting explosion will be.. again.. adding more horsepower and as a result.. better fuel economy.

Anyway.. these are the reasons or thoughts that prompted me to try this experiment.. As of yet.. I have not noticed any performance benefits and while I do believe it might be helping my gas mileage.. its not by much and I wont have definative numbers until I fill up again. Cheers.

Tunes67

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » April 28th, 2005, 7:20 am

Blotto wrote:If you look most fuel system cleaners main ingredient is Acetone!

That being the case, the real effects/benefits probably won't be realized until you've gone through 2 or 3 tanks of gas. Effecient operation of injectors would go a long way to improving performance and mileage I would say. Perhaps in essence, that's all the real noticeable effect acetone really does - cleans and keeps clean the intake valves/injectors.

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » April 28th, 2005, 10:52 am

I dont think thats all it does John.. I do think its improving my gas mileage. My reasoning on that one is simple.. My head and injectors were completely rebuild only 2 months ago.. so there isnt going to be much if any build up for the acetone to clean up in such a short period of time. Especially since I run only premium fuel

Tunes67

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » April 29th, 2005, 11:31 am

Tunes67 wrote:I dont think thats all it does John.. I do think its improving my gas mileage. My reasoning on that one is simple.. My head and injectors were completely rebuild only 2 months ago.. so there isnt going to be much if any build up for the acetone to clean up in such a short period of time. Especially since I run only premium fuel
Tunes67

Even better. You're starting basically from a solid baseline which will give a real good indication as to the effective benifit's of acetone. I fully subscribe to the usage of the highest octane available for the exact same reasons. Hotter burn = more efficient burn = cleaner combustion chamber, valves and injectors. Unfortunately, because I don't know the history/back ground of my ZE I can't determine the extent of build-up unless i did a tear-down. If the carbon build-ups in the TB/Idle Air screw/exhaust/ IM/ and plugs is any indication - I've got a lot of cleaning to do.

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » May 3rd, 2005, 12:30 pm

Ok.. time for an update.. and a correction on my part. First the correction.

I have been doing some additional reading and research about advertised gasoline octane ratings and what they mean.. and what I posted previously about "The higher the octane, the better the fuel or the more flammable the fuel" This is a bit of a misnomer. From the additional reading I have done.. it seems that the higher the octane rating the more resistant to ignition that gasoline is. Now this is still a good thing.. supposedly its because the gasoline is more pure with fewer additives. The reason its "better" is because the fuel is more resistant to preignition. Which is why for those of us that advance our timing beyond factory specifications that running the highest octane fuel we can will give us the best results. (i.e. More power & better mileage) 92 octane fuels (and above) dont burn any hotter than other octane rating fuels.. they just allow the fuel vapors to be compressed more without igniting prematurely. In some ways.. 87 octane fuel could be considered more flammable than 92 octane fuel. Though once ignited they both apparently burn with the same intensity. Just that the 87 oct. can ignite easier under high compression, which of course is why you get the knocking and pinging under load with that fuel if you have your timing too far advanced.. the fuel is igniting prematurely.

Now.. onto the acetone test..

I will be filling up tomorrow. I am currently at 293 miles on my trip meter and will be putting approximately 20 more miles on it before the idiot light comes on to indicate time for fueling. So.. that will put me at 313 for this tank of gas.. 13 more miles than my previous tank of gas. Now this may not seem like a huge increase in mileage.. however.. due to circumstances this past week, I put roughly 50 more miles of city driving on my car than I usually do and I was driving her harder than usual to try and see if I could feel the supposed performance difference that was being claimed by that initial article. Honestly.. I didnt notice a huge performance gain.. I did notice that it seemed to pull hills a bit better with the acetone in the tank.

So.. my initial conclusion.. MYTH: PLAUSIBLE

When I fill up tomorrow I will again add acetone to my gas and this time I will baby her and drive to get the best possible gas mileage out of her. I will post back with an update when I need to refuel again. Cheers

Tunes67

Blotto · Post by **Blotto** » May 4th, 2005, 1:17 am

Yes, please do keep us posted. You seem to have the best possibly setup to test this since your motor is rather clean. Sadly this day in age an extra 30-50mi out of a tank is alot. Also if it does keep your engine clean could be a very good thing.

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » May 4th, 2005, 1:51 am

I seriously doubt that even under the best circumstances I will see 30-50 more miles per tank.. though I wish I did

I think I have a limitation in my car. Yes my engine is in excellent condition and seems to be properly tuned. However.. I have the ATX transmission.. and ATX setups are much less fuel efficient than a manual trans setup. I wish it was MTX.. maybe someday

I do encourage others to try this.. the effects do seem minimal.. but maybe they would be more significant in a manual trans car. Bottom line.. to find out how well this really works.. we will need other baselines to compare against. But for me.. at the least I will use up the remainder of the Acetone I have and then decide if its worth getting more.

Tunes67

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » May 10th, 2005, 7:29 pm

Ok.. Time to fill up again tomorrow.. looks like this time my mileage has decreased slightly.. I am at 276 miles now and anticipate another 15 miles before fillup. Averaging out to be around 29 miles to the gallon. Now.. I did race a couple of times (yeah I know thats kinda funny with the ATX 1.6L car).. but I did win both races

One against a later model civic and one against a minivan. Now before you comment about the civic.. keep in mind that I have a different way of tallying a "Win" when on the street from stop light to stop light. If I prevent the person in the lane next to me from speeding in front of me and cutting me off, thus making him slow down and get behind me.. that is counted as a "Win" on the street in my book LOL. Ok.. back to the test.. I have a lot of freeway driving that will be going on the next tank of gas.. so the numbers should be inflated a bit next time I post. Cheers.

Tunes67

tw1st3d_cl0wn · Post by **tw1st3d_cl0wn** » May 11th, 2005, 8:18 am

I read the article posted about this, and it sounds interesting. Is anyone else testing this out? My MX3 is completely stock and wonder if it'd have any benefits. I have a 95 RS automatic, and currently get about 220 miles out of a full tank, before the light comes on and I fill up.

The article mentioned the different gas stations where the fuel is of better quality. What stations do you guys see a difference in, because I find that when I go to Mobil, when compared to Shell, Mobil just for some reason seems better. When I fill up with Shell, I tend to run out of gas faster. Am I just crazy or is there some basis for this? I use the highest octane also. Seems to run better on it.

Good luck with the testing...

93SOHC · Post by **93SOHC** » May 11th, 2005, 11:58 am

Well out here in the "boonies" the quality of gas varies not by company, but by location. What I mean is that certain counties use reformulated gas while others don't. Another factor is that some gas stations are in a crappy area(landscape/wise) so they have more water ceapage into the tanks when it rains, while others never do. There are so many factors to consider, i just try to not put that reformulated crap in my car as it can ruin you injectors

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » May 11th, 2005, 12:16 pm

I have a 95 RS automatic, and currently get about 220 miles out of a full tank,

TC- you need a tune up.. I have the 94 RS Auto and even before the Acetone I was still averaging 280-300 per 10 gallons (my fuel indicator light comes on and it takes almost exactly 10 gallons to fill at that point) My mileage really depends on my driving style in this car.. In some ways.. its gas usage characteristics are similar to my old nova.. the nova just did it on a larger scale LOL

But seriously.. if you havent tuned it up recently (or know when last it was done), New plug wires, spark plugs, distributor cap, rotor, air filter ( I recommend K&N) and fuel filter as well. Also run some decent quality fuel injector cleaner through your next couple of tanks of gas.. this should help as well.

Tunes67

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » May 11th, 2005, 12:35 pm

Oh and avoid gasoline that contains Ethanol.. I filled up with that stuff once and man did my engine knock & ping from it. Sluggish response too. Cheveron seems the best around here, and I noticed the same thing about Shell gas that you did as well.. No difference in power... but I got fewer miles to the tank.. makes me wonder if they dont keep their pumps properly calibrated.. meaning you see the pump saying your bought 10 gallons.. but in reality you only put in 9.5 or less. Texaco gas is ok, if you can find a true texaco.. around here they were all bought up by Shell and now run Shell gas.. its the highest price gas around.. so I havent tried it.. Their Premium unleaded here is almost .20 cents a gallon more than Cheveron. I havent tried Tesoro gas, or Conoco yet (conoco is available in Eastern WA, but I dont know of any around in my area.. ) But on the occasions that I ran Conoco in my Subaru (lots of trips to spokane) It got very good mileage with Conoco. Exxon gas is supposed to be pretty good as well.. but there are very few Exxon stations around here and I havent tried their gas yet since they are really out of my general driving areas.

The worst gas you can get.. Shitgo (Citgo) gas from 7-11.. I cant tell you the number of times I have had to drain my mom's & friends gas tanks because they used this stuff.. its almost more water than gas. AM/PM or Mobil gas.. I dont think Mobil gas is bad.. but getting it at these convenience stores like AM/PM I think is bad.. they have no clue how to maintain their tanks and again.. I have seen lots of water in their gas.

These of course are just my opinions.. I love to drive.. and I do a lot of driving, so i have had the opportunity to try various different brands.. just not in the MX-3 yet. My Old nova really liked Union 76 (before they started adding Ethanol) and absolutely hated BP gas (British Petrolium) Hope this helps somewhat.

Tunes67

tw1st3d_cl0wn · Post by **tw1st3d_cl0wn** » May 11th, 2005, 12:58 pm

A tune up huh? Yeah I figured 220 miles to a tank was low. I didn't know that the quality of gas varied more by location than by company. BP is pretty good too, I mean compared to when I go to Shell. Texaco I noticed isn't as good either. Citgos with the 7-11's suck, you're right. Man, I'm so glad people agree with me because I thought I was just weird for thinking this stuff. Haha.

But as far as a tune up, I already have the K&N filter, but am going to clean it. I bought spark plugs but have yet to change them. Still need to install my tranny cooler. I have a bunch of stuff I bought that is just sitting around. This weekend, I think I'll try and attempt some of the easier stuff myself, just because I'm sick of waiting. In about 2 weeks someone who has tools and a garage is going to help me out with the more complicated things. Hope they're ready cause I have alot to do!

Oh, as far as fuel injector cleaner, is there a particular brand I should look for?

Thanks for the advice.

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » May 11th, 2005, 1:38 pm

I really like the Valvoline fuel injector cleaner.. its not cheap though.. was like $9 a bottle at the parts store. I havent needed it for my MX-3 cause when I did the head rebuild I also rebuilt a set of injectors for it as well. But that valvoline made a noticable difference in performance and mileage on my subaru way back when I first bought the car. Seafoam is supposed to be really good too.. not as easy to find from what I understand.. But I have heard great things about it and supposedly its not that expensive.. I even know of a shop that uses it when cleaning and rebuilding injectors. So that would be a decent choice too. Hope this helps.

Tunes67

93SOHC · Post by **93SOHC** » May 11th, 2005, 2:20 pm

Seafoam!!!!!!!!!!!!