1st and 2nd only

[DJester187]

in 1st & 2nd i don't seem to have any power anymore! all the fast torqued pickup seems to kick in in 3rd at about 3.5 rpms. now i know that is about the rpms where the power is supposed to kick in anyway but in the first two gears i can rev the piss out of them and only move like 20 ft (that is an exaggeration). does anyone know why i would not have any 'umph'? could it be a suspension thing? please help!

[IanL]

The only thing I can think of that can affect the engine's torque in one set of gears and not another is - the Neutral Switch.

I have not got any documentation for this, but I believe that the ECU reduces torque if the neutral switch is closed (i.e. it believes the transmission is in neutral). This supposedly happens with ATX if the transmission is in P or N.

So my guess is that your neutral switch is closed in first and second gears. Prove it by undoing the connector - this will prevent Neutral being signalled to the ECU - and see if you get the torque back in first and second. (You may get a higher idle speed in neutral as a result)

If it works, let us know, please. It would be nice to prove the theory

[DJester187]

i had a feeling about that! i think that my neutral switch is NOT hooked up. i posted alot about 2 gree wires that are not connected to my tranny that should be connected (which are, according to wiring schematics, to the neutral switch) to my tranny. So let me ask, if the switch is not hooked up could that also affect torque?

[DJester187]

to clarify a little...i currently have my neutral switch shorted by twisting the wires together (the live and ground) b/c w/o doing that my idle is messed up by bouncing between 2.5 and 1.5 and if i try to accelerate the car bucks terribly until i pass 3 rpms. if anyone knows where/has a pic of where the neutral switch is located on a 5spd tranny it would be very appreciative.

[IanL]

If you are saying that your neutral switch is disconnected from the harness, and the harness wires are connected together, you are telling the ECU that the car is permanently in Neutral.

If the switch wires are disconnected from the harness and twisted together, they would do nothing, so I guess it's not that.

Either way, it hits my theory on the head. If the switch is disconnected from the ECU, it can't be telling it neutral when you're in 1st and 2nd, but not 3rd to 5th.

[DJester187]

so we think it is the switch then....

[mx3man83]

Originally posted by DJester187:
to clarify a little...i currently have my neutral switch shorted by twisting the wires together (the live and ground) b/c w/o doing that my idle is messed up by bouncing between 2.5 and 1.5 and if i try to accelerate the car bucks terribly until i pass 3 rpms. if anyone knows where/has a pic of where the neutral switch is located on a 5spd tranny it would be very appreciative.

Holy crap this sounds like my problem (the bucking below 3k rpms). Maybe my neutral switch is causing it..where is that sucker located? I haven't looked under my car in a while but I am thinking maybe it is one of those sensors coming out of the tranny?

[IanL]

OK, here goes some more guesswork. If it's wrong, forget it, if it's right, you heard it here first

Maybe the car is not very sensitive to the ECU thinking it's always in Neutral, when there is less torque multiplication from the transmission, i.e. in 3rd to 5th gears. But in 1st and 2nd, you have a lot of torque multiplication, so the butt dyno picks up on the shortfall. The butt dyno registers torque at the wheels, not at the flywheel. Does this make sense?

OK, if you're still with me, lets say you connect up your neutral switch, get more torque from the engine, and the bucking bronco act starts again. This could be caused by our old friend the vacuum leak. When the engine delivers lots of torque, it rocks over on its mounts and stretches the pipes (including the ribbed hose between the VAF and the TB). Check it out.

[DJester187]

ok, so to solidify this theory where IS the neutral switch on the tranny? i know the reverse lights, or reverse sensor if you will, is located on the underside (the bottom most part of the tranny, sticking out and pointing down to the ground) of the tranny on the cylander like part, so that on is out. but checked around the tranny (not thoroughly mind you) and have not found any other place for the switch's green wires to hook up to. again this is the stock tranny and wire set so i know these wires go to this tranny!!

[IanL]

The Neutral switch is shown on the passenger side(LHD) end of the casing, perhaps somewhere near the drive shaft, but it's not very clear. The connector looks to be somewhere below the throttle body.

[DJester187]

ok so it's on the fatter side of the tranny then, lol that show's how much i know about tranny parts. Near the top of it? i know u said under the throttle body (i know what that is, lol) so that is why i'm guessing on the top. B/c u said it isn't very clear i may just have better luck climbing under there and searching 4 it.

[MX3ze@7psi]

Hey it sounds like what my ze is doing too. I don't really feel any torque in first and second gears but in third it pulls and every time you floor it, it doesn't go it lags for a bit and then go but it picks up really slow. When I did the swap I hooked up every thing up there were no wires that were left over. How would you know the nuetral sensor thing is bad?

[IanL]

The actual switch is screwed into the TX casing, on the end face, passenger side, maybe near where the passenger side drive shaft emerges from the casing. The switch has a cable coming out of it (a pigtail). That plugs into a connector which is located somewhere beneath the throttle body.

To test the switch, you can put an ohmmeter between the ECU terminal 1R (Brown/Yellow wire) and ground. Should get zero ohms in Neutral, high resistance not in Neutral. Or the other end of the Brown/Yellow, at the connector mentioned above. You can disconnect at the connector and just test into the pigtail for on/off action, but that doesn't test the car's harness as well.

[DJester187]

ok i know this sounds dumb but the 'end face' does that mean the side near the firewall of the nose if the car?

[IanL]

Neither. It's hard to explain when the engine and transmission are turned across the car, but I think of the transmission as having two sides (one towards the firewall, the other the nose) and two faces. By "end face" I mean the part of the transmission casing which is parallel to the fore-and-aft line of the car - so its facing the passenger side wheel, if you like.

<small>[ September 07, 2004, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: IanL ]</small>