KLZE curved neck manifold VACUUM hookups. Please help!

[Gro Harlem]

Ok, I got my ZE curved neck mani. I polished it all up, and installed it with some red valve covers, now my car runs like crap!

Here are the symptoms: When I give it more than 30% throttle, it bogs, misfires and hesitates as if the ignition timing is fubar. BUT the distributor is new, and functions correctly.

I put my K8 ECU in and ran the OBD and pulled codes 2 and 3 (crank position sensor, and camshaft position sensor) which indicates that it has to do with ignition timing, but I'm not so sure.

My ZE manifold came with basically nothing attached, except for the injectors. I tested all the vac fittings on the manifold and hooked them up like how they were hooked up on the K8 manifold.

I took some pictures prior to putting the manifold on just in case I needed them, I labeled 6 different vac nipples coming off the manifold. I need to know which one you guys who have GOOD running curved neck ZE's hooked these up to.

Here are two angles of the pictures:

<img src="http://projectmazda.com/host/hvac/ze1.JPG" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://projectmazda.com/host/hvac/ze2.JPG" alt=" - " />

Here is a description of each one of the nipples:

1: 10mm diameter, I'm guessing its for ABS which I don't have, I plugged it

2: 4mm diameter, I was going to plug my CC into it, but I didn't have any extra T-fittings, so I used it for the one solenoid that is mounted to the firewall, I think it might control VRIS or something

3: 10mm diameter, I used it for my brake booster.

4: 8mm (or so) diameter, I used it for my PCV valve.

5: 4mm diameter, I used it for the two VRIS solenoids.

6: 4 or 10mm diameter, the one VRIS solenoid is blocking the view. I plugged it up, I have no idea what its for

WTF: not a nipple, but had two screwholes and two manifold pressure holes that I have NO CLUE what goes to. I put some aluminum duct-tape over top it so no air would leak out. Anyone shed some light on this thing?

I think there might have been another nipple on the back whose view is blocked in these pictures. I know there was a 10mm and a 4mm one that I plugged on the back, and that one ABS one on top that I ghetto plugged (temporarily) with that zip tied peice of silicone hose.

So how did you guys hook up your ZE manifolds so your cars actually RAN GOOD? I plan on taking the manifold off again tommorrow and trying to fix it.

Thanks ya'll!!

<small>[ January 05, 2004, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Gro Harlem ]</small>

[SimonPK]

The WTF looks like where I connected up the EGR pipe to - I was lucky when I fitted my KLZE as it had a plate over it - I still have the plate around somewhere if you are stuck for one - but if you check on your existing manifold you might have it.

The 1 to 6 checks out from what I remember doing as well - I'll take a look at my car when the 4" of snow we had this morning disappears.

[dkrangers]

My ZE manifold looks a lot different than that one. Do they all look like that or are some different? I know I have a '94 from a millenia, but have always wondered if it was the real deal.

[Spydie]

#3 is for the PCV bro....it's a different size so you'll have to stretch. "WTF" is for the EGR.
the rest I'm not 100% because I don't have my IM in front of me but pretty much match up the same as your K8 was (they may be in a different position but it all goes in the same direction really) and then the rest should fall into place by process of elimination
if you have more nipples than hoses later it means they're for stuff that the car your IM came off of had that yours doesn't.....just plug them.
oh....it also looks like you're missing the vac chamber that mounts under the pipe where you wrote the #2.

<small>[ January 06, 2004, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Darren Hyderman ]</small>

[Zoso124]

[quote]Originally posted by Gro Harlem:
But in Japan this line was to brake booster. (Remember their brake booster was on that side of the engine) Either way will work.

2. You can run this to your cruise control or block it off if you don't have it.

3. Either brake booster or PCV.

4. Currently mine is blocked off because I eliminated the EGR.

5. I think mine is blocked off. IIRC that black line should be going to the one vaccum chamber. Which is missing from your Intake.

6. I just block my off IIRC.

Gro, hit me up on AIM and I'll send you some pictures.

[Street-Import]

Gro Harlem...
dont worry I will take many pics by tomorrow or thursday max and send you the links. My intake have ALL the tubing on it. So with that you will be able to fix everything. Sorry for the delay, just been really busy lately.

[Gro Harlem]

Coolness, thanks for all you guys help. I was gonna take the mani off today and fix it, but it was my b-day and a bunch of surprise visits, going out to eat / movie wasted my entire day.

I'm not gonna be around my car til the 11th since i'm driving to NY to visit some relatives....Post up some pics of your setups and i'll fix it asap, once i get back from NY.

Thanks again for all your help! You guys kickass

[Gro Harlem]

Hrmm...talking to some ppl on AIM, they mentioned that my problem is almost definitely those two black box thingys that are mounted on the bottom of the K8 manifold

Here is a pic of where they go (note, i removed them, i just lay them there for the pic).

<img src="http://projectmazda.com/host/hvac/2chambers.jpg" alt=" - " />

I thought they wre just resonance chambers wth a check valve. The hose that goes into them is from the 2 VRIS solenoids, and the hose past the check valve goes into the manifold.

A couple of questions:

1: What the hell are these things? What is their function? Somoene told me they actuate the VRIS solenoids. Maybe this explains why my #1 solenoid doesn't work, and my #2 works normal?

2: Did these come on curved neck mani's? If so, where were they mounted?

3: If they did come with them, do you think I could rig the ones off my K8 to work with my ZE mani? Or are they way different?

4: do you think this is waht is causing my sputtering/stumbling/backfiring when i give my car more than 30% throttle?

[IanL]

They are vacuum reservoirs to operate the VRIS valves when the engine is working hard (eg lots of throttle open) and the vacuum available from the manifold is too little to open a valve. It would mean that the valve wouldn't open when it should under hard acceleration. You definitely should fit them. Whether it would cause your symptoms is hard to say.

You have to bear in mind that #1 VRIS Valve will not open at the first band (2,000 to 2,600) unless the engine is under load, but it will in the second band (3,900 to 6,300). This applies to the K8D, so the values may be a bit different with another ECU.

[bikeguy18974]

Just a quick note. Be real careful if you do any work with those chambers or the green check valve. My hoses were very stiff and I broke the plastic nipples off the one chamber and the check valve.

The dealer charged me $48 for the chamber and $37 for the check valve. Not cheap for bits of plastic.

[Nd4SpdSe]

Originally posted by dkrangers:
My ZE manifold looks a lot different than that one. Do they all look like that or are some different? I know I have a '94 from a millenia, but have always wondered if it was the real deal.

The one that Gro Harlem is the exact same one as i have, Curt told me its the IM from the older Millenia ZE's

[babyblueMX3]

normally the millenia US mani and ze are the same except the ze has a casting line mark on top (round shape) of the manifold..so yeah gro has the ms8

[Street-Import]

Here is some pics I just took for you buddy...

It took me 3 MS8 intake manifold to fall on this 4th one fully complete. Hope this help! I wish I had these pictures a while ago, it would have save me a load of troubles!

<img src="http://digitalcreation.ca/mx3/Curveneck_ms8_01.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://digitalcreation.ca/mx3/Curveneck_ms8_02.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://digitalcreation.ca/mx3/Curveneck_ms8_03.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://digitalcreation.ca/mx3/Curveneck_ms8_04.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://digitalcreation.ca/mx3/Curveneck_ms8_05.jpg" alt=" - " />

take care buddy! Let me know how it goes

[Gro Harlem]

Pat: Thanks so much for taking those pics!! They are a big help for showing me what mine is missing, etc.

What I find is weird on yours is how they didn't use any of the 3 nipples on the back at all.

Based on looking at that picture, it seems this is how Mazda hooked up that manifold from the factory:

(based on my numbering of the 6 vac hookups)

1: Right-hand drive brake booster OR LHD ABS block
2: VRIS vac chambers for both solenoids
3: Left-Hand drive brake booster OR RHD ABS block
4: PCV valve pipe
5: Unused
6: Unused
7 (i forgot this one was there): Unused
WTF: blocked off, most likely for EGR.

But....my question about this is:

1: Where did the rig the cruise control line?
2: Where did they rig that 3rd solenoid valve that is mounted to the firewall? It has a vac hookup too. I believe it is the "purge control valve" whatever the hell that is.

My guess is that I could T-split off that 3rd valve and my CC line and just rig them to #5 or #2 and rig the VRIS to whatever is remaining since both of these nipples (at least when I tested them) have the freest flowing amount of airflow as compared to the elusive 7th one.

<small>[ January 11, 2004, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Gro Harlem ]</small>

[Sean Mandell]

gro I think you are confused with the egr. The plate that is located above the egr tube actually doesn't block the egr and u need a big bolt to block it up. If you are driving around without it blocked then I would think that it would cause the car to act strange a bit.