ZE Vs 03.. how much harder to install

[pipes]

I live in Australia and have sourced both a ZE and a 03 V6 KL motor to swap my 1.8K8.
How much harder is the ZE to install compared to the 03. Can I use my existing ECU?
This is not a very common swap over here so I wanna make it as easy as possible.. and cheap!!

[Nd4SpdSe]

actually its called a DE, not 03<p>there's no difference in the install, there's almost identical except for the internals of the engine, but those are very similar as well<p>I'm not sure about the DE, but a ZE will run rich with your 1.8ECU, unless your using a 2.5vaf<p>Myself, ill be going KLZE ECU and 1.8vaf for my KLZE

[pipes]

That i the first time I have heard that you can use the 1.8 VAF at all. So if I source the 2.5 ECU.. should not be to dificult then I can use the 1.8 VAF. My mechanic is very worried bout this swap so I am trying to source as much info as possible. Will existing clutch/gearbox etc hold up?

[M0RDECHA1 MANDELL]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by pipes:
That i the first time I have heard that you can use the 1.8 VAF at all. So if I source the 2.5 ECU.. should not be to dificult then I can use the 1.8 VAF. My mechanic is very worried bout this swap so I am trying to source as much info as possible. Will existing clutch/gearbox etc hold up?<hr></blockquote>
search search search!

[Nd4SpdSe]

gearbox yes, clutch no. It wont break the clutch, it'll just start slipping under alot of power.<p>I'm not too familiar with the KLDE ECU/VAF combo's cause im in teh same situation, doing research for my mechanic that will be doing teh swap, but i need to do KLZE research.<p>Correct me if im wrong, but the best combo with the 2.5ECU is the 2.5VAF. The KLZE ECU works with the 1.8Vaf cause i guess the KLZE's Vaf is the same one.<p>I have no idea how a KLZE ECU will work with a KLDE engine<p>[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: Nd4SpdSe ]</p>

[pipes]

Makes sense.. just read your posting re: why it runs rich with 1.8 ECU..
Can anyone list the parts required to buy and those I can steal from my 1.8L to replace with a ZE with a 2.5 VAF.
I really need to convince my mechanic that it is possible and that it can be done in a week providing I have all the parts required.

[Nd4SpdSe]

some people have done it in a weekend...<p>This should help ya out...<p>http://www.mx-3.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=002988

[VizualXTC]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Nd4SpdSe:
actually its called a DE, not 03<hr></blockquote><p>Actually it's called a KL-03, OR KL-DE. I believe Mazda just calls it a KL in their paperwork. Also, more people (from my experience) know of the US-Spec Mazda 2.5L V6 engine as a KL03 than either a KLDE or a KL. In fact, I know a guy (who I trust more than anyone about fixing ANY mazda piston engine) that has no clue what I am talking about when I refer to it as a DE or a KLDE. He calls it a KL03 just like the majority. I don't know where this sudden urge to call it a DE came from. True it is a name for it, but not by far the only one.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BUG$Y:
search search search!
<hr></blockquote><p>Dood, you are WAY too new a member to be tellin people to search like you're gettin tired of the questions. Do like we vererans do and.....if you don't like the topic, don't read it.

[pipes]

That link had alot of reading thanks,
Being an Auzzie it confused me though..
We need EGR controls on our vehicles.
This Is what I gather I need to Do.
Buy j-spec Ze engine with VAF.
Keep 1.8L ECU
Buy stronger clutch (optional)
Swap manifolds from 1.8 to 2.5
swap mounts/distributor/etc from 1.8 to 2.5.
Adjust wiring (2) to fit in loom.<p>please advise if this will work and whether there are any other essential steps required....
I know that there is alot of preventative maintenance that can be done while the motor is out but I will wait to see how it is when I get it.

[Zoso124]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>In fact, I know a guy (who I trust more than anyone about fixing ANY mazda piston engine) that has no clue what I am talking about when I refer to it as a DE or a KLDE. He calls it a KL03 just like the majority. I don't know where this sudden urge to call it a DE came from. True it is a name for it, but not by far the only one.<hr></blockquote><p>The reason most people called it KL-03 is because alot of the engine parts say that and for some reason it has caught on like wild fire. The true designation by Mazda is KL-DE. Technically Mazda never produced a KL-03. Sorry just wanted to add that.

[Nd4SpdSe]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by VizualXTC:
Actually it's called a KL-03, OR KL-DE. I believe Mazda just calls it a KL in their paperwork. Also, more people (from my experience) know of the US-Spec Mazda 2.5L V6 engine as a KL03 than either a KLDE or a KL. In fact, I know a guy (who I trust more than anyone about fixing ANY mazda piston engine) that has no clue what I am talking about when I refer to it as a DE or a KLDE. He calls it a KL03 just like the majority. I don't know where this sudden urge to call it a DE came from. True it is a name for it, but not by far the only one.<hr></blockquote><p>Actually i heard the other way around, that 03 came out of nowhere, invented by the mx-6 board or something of the sort. There seem to be alot of people that don't like it being called 03, so i call it DE to make people happy. <p>Personally, DE makes sense, cause you can differ the N.A. and Jap engines easier. You dont call your K8 a K803 (or do you?) but a K8-DE. VizualXTC, unless i've been reading things backwards, i believe that your the first person i;ve seen that told someone to call it an 03 instead of DE<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Do like we vererans do and.....if you don't like the topic, don't read it. <hr></blockquote><p>Agreed!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by pipes:
That link had alot of reading thanks,
Being an Auzzie it confused me though..
We need EGR controls on our vehicles.
This Is what I gather I need to Do.
Buy j-spec Ze engine with VAF.
Keep 1.8L ECU
Buy stronger clutch (optional)
Swap manifolds from 1.8 to 2.5
swap mounts/distributor/etc from 1.8 to 2.5.
Adjust wiring (2) to fit in loom.<hr></blockquote><p>What happens if you don't have an EGR. I know here in Canada, we'll pretty much fail emissions if we dont have it, Fail E-Test = No Insurance renuals. But with the KLZE/DE, its not an engine thag was an option with the car, so i'll be classed as a "hotrod", and will need to pass according to 1983 emissions standard (the good 'ol carburated days). So no EGR is no big deall <p>Mounts can be reused, new ones are recommended of course. <p>Which manifold are you refering to? 2.5L/ZE curved neck intake manifolds are hard to find, so your better getting it with the engine, as for exaust, keep your stock if your keeping your exaust system, use your ZE exaust manifold if your upgrading your exaust system<p>One thing we should check is if the 2.5ECU uses EGR, which i believe does. I'm not sure if its better but you may wanna consider a 2.5ECU/2.5VAF combo for better results. <p>Like i said, i know your gonna need a 2.5VAF if your keeping the 1.8ECU. I would think a 2.5VAF/ECU combo would work better...but do a search on it anyhow on recommended combos, there's alot of choices, and i'm not good with 2.5VAF/ECU info.<p>And while your at it, check to see if the ZE vaf is the same as the 2.5VAF, they may be different, but engines dont usually come with a VAF of any sort<p>[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: Nd4SpdSe ]</p>

[pipes]

The EGR is only required when our vehicles are roadworthied.. that is when we sell them.. If I never sold the car I would not have to worry, but yes we need the EGR to register our cars if not they are not allowed on the road.
You were right the j-spec does not come with VAF although I now have sourced a KL-DE or 03 (don't care what it is) for it. supposedly will do the job.
This is a much harder conversion to do over here, there is not the same support of suppliers as you have working over there so your help is much appreciated.
I have just ordered the latest pakfeifer body kit at pakfeifer.com, have you seen it? It arrives here next week, I had my pants pulled down getting the thring through customs.. quite expensive!

[VizualXTC]

Nd4SpdSe, I wasn't saying that the DE came from nowhere, I was just stating that the majority of the people refer to the 2.5L US-spec engine as a KL03. I wasn't denouncing the use of KLDE. I just think it's silly when people have called something by a certain name, and then someone comes by and tries to change it. The first time I ever heard this engine called a DE was when Dave Coleman said something about it. I havn't been to probetalk for a long time, but when I did go there, it was refered to as an 03. The MX-6 boards also refer to it usually as an 03 or just a plain KL. I wasn't saying you were wrong per se, just that both (actually all 3) references were correct and accepted. I call it an 03, always have, always will. No reason for me to change what I call it. When I say KL03, you all know what I am talking about.<p>P.S. I don't refer to my K8 as a K803 or a K8DE, I refer to it as a K8.

[IanL]

Pipes,<p>Suggest you read http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/8175/myswap.htm - it explains that you should keep the K8 exhaust manifold. Also, I believe you won't need to source a curved inlet manifold, assuming your car is RHD, because your brake servo is on the RHS, and won't foul the KLxx straight manifold. But it may be a bit tight at the battery.<p>This thread http://www.mx-3.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=002182 gives you some photos of KL swap into RHD.<p>It strikes me the right ECU and VAF for a KLDE would be the KLDE ECU and KLDE VAF, then you can keep the EGR, and the setup will work just as it did in the donor car - how could it tell otherwise?<p>Good luck.