Quick master/slave cylinder question

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ElGringo
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Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by ElGringo »

Hello all. I have a 1993 Mx3 V6, with just over 107k miles. When I push my clutch pedal in, I have about 5-7 seconds to shift before the clutch starts to slowly engage again. Once I release the clutch, it takes a few seconds to build pressure back up (like maybe 10-15) so that I can shift again. There is zero leaking that I can see, not on the floor driver's side, or underneath the car, and the reservoir stays at the same fill level. I had another 93 MX3, 4 cyl and the master went slowly with leakage, so I'm familiar with that messy scenario :) When I pump the clutch pedal, it starts to fade very quickly and will then take very little effort to sink it to the floor, but it pops right back up with the spring.

Can someone advise me if its the slave or the master, or some other problem? My finances are tight. I'm not looking to be cheap with it, but I can't wait 2 weeks to get my car fixed. Any help is greatly appreciated - thank you!
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MrMazda92
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Re: Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by MrMazda92 »

From what little I know of it, I'd say bleed the clutch and brake lines... Air compresses, the brake fluid shouldn't.

I've never had a clutch fail, but you just described almost perfectly, word for word, the feel of air filled brake lines.
Daily:
'12 Challenger R/T + STP - 3.92 w/ LSD, JG Cam, headers, SkipShift delete, Clutch Delay Valve delete, Hurst STS, RAM Clutch Adjuster, StopTech 6 Piston Brakes, Sticky Nittos, 435 WHP

Kid Hauler:
'08 Suburban LT 4WD - TVS 1900 Blower, LF SC Cam, headers, AFM delete, true 5" lift, 33x12s, 523 WHP

First Love:
'92 GS 5 spd - Straightneck KL/67mm TB, MegaSquirt/Coilpacks, 5 lugs/Speed6 brakes/FD wheels, wiretuck, coilovers, headers, AEM WB, Borla
Deleted: VAF/Power Steering/Air Conditioning/EGR/ABS/Auto Seatbelts/etc
ElGringo
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Re: Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by ElGringo »

Thanks for the reply! :) If there is air in the lines though, I know one of my cylinders is bad. I live in Central Florida, and it got 'cold' here Saturday (for Florida anyway), so I'm thinking one of the seals gave up and I'm trying to figure out which one it is.
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MrMazda92
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Re: Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by MrMazda92 »

Hmm, do you mean the seals within the calipers themselves? I'd say bleed the brakes(work from passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, to driver front) in that order... If one is taking extra long to bleed, or you just can't seem to get the air bubbles out, I'd say it's probably the culprit.

Brakes are far from a specialty of mine, but it seems a logical enough test, if there is a leak large enough to let air in to begin with. :shrug:
Daily:
'12 Challenger R/T + STP - 3.92 w/ LSD, JG Cam, headers, SkipShift delete, Clutch Delay Valve delete, Hurst STS, RAM Clutch Adjuster, StopTech 6 Piston Brakes, Sticky Nittos, 435 WHP

Kid Hauler:
'08 Suburban LT 4WD - TVS 1900 Blower, LF SC Cam, headers, AFM delete, true 5" lift, 33x12s, 523 WHP

First Love:
'92 GS 5 spd - Straightneck KL/67mm TB, MegaSquirt/Coilpacks, 5 lugs/Speed6 brakes/FD wheels, wiretuck, coilovers, headers, AEM WB, Borla
Deleted: VAF/Power Steering/Air Conditioning/EGR/ABS/Auto Seatbelts/etc
ElGringo
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Re: Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by ElGringo »

Sorry if I was unclear... The brakes are fine, no loss of pedal pressure or issues stopping :) it is only the clutch pedal that I'm having an issue with. I did notice this morning that if I have the clutch pedal all the way to the floor the clutch stays disengaged, but if I let it up at all, it will "dump" the clutch, there doesn't seem to be any leeway. Normally (before this started), the clutch would start to engage about 1/4 of the way off the pedal being pressed in. Thank you again guys for the replies. I've been coming to this site for years and years and love the support that is here :)
davmac
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Re: Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by davmac »

MrMazda though confused about brake versus clutch assumes there is air in the line. You should check for that by bleeding the slave clutch cylinder on the front of the trans.
You assume either the clutch master or slave seal is shot. I agree.
Good news is that the MX3 clutch master and slave can be bought for about $25 (plus shipping) total for both from rockauto. I would replace both carefully bleed everything and be done.
If you want to isolate master then go to auto parts store and buy a single M10 x 1.0 brake line union and get either a very short pre-made brake line for Japanese car or a M10 x 1.0 bolt from a hardware store. Remove the line from the slave cylinder and effectively dead end it by using the union to attach either a short kinked steel brake line or the bolt into the other end of the union. Press the clutch pedal and see if it holds pressure. You could confirm the master is good and just replace the slave.
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ElGringo
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Re: Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by ElGringo »

Davemac, thank you for the detailed reply and advice. Just curious... If the master goes, shouldn't I see some kind of leakage inside the car? I'll swap them both out as soon as I can. Thanks again!
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MrMazda92
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Re: Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by MrMazda92 »

Yeah, I posted that on a 32 hours of no sleep. :lol: Feeling a little better now! ;)

Same principle, but replace every instance of brake with clutch :P
Daily:
'12 Challenger R/T + STP - 3.92 w/ LSD, JG Cam, headers, SkipShift delete, Clutch Delay Valve delete, Hurst STS, RAM Clutch Adjuster, StopTech 6 Piston Brakes, Sticky Nittos, 435 WHP

Kid Hauler:
'08 Suburban LT 4WD - TVS 1900 Blower, LF SC Cam, headers, AFM delete, true 5" lift, 33x12s, 523 WHP

First Love:
'92 GS 5 spd - Straightneck KL/67mm TB, MegaSquirt/Coilpacks, 5 lugs/Speed6 brakes/FD wheels, wiretuck, coilovers, headers, AEM WB, Borla
Deleted: VAF/Power Steering/Air Conditioning/EGR/ABS/Auto Seatbelts/etc
davmac
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Re: Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by davmac »

ElGringo wrote:Davemac, thank you for the detailed reply and advice. Just curious... If the master goes, shouldn't I see some kind of leakage inside the car? I'll swap them both out as soon as I can. Thanks again!
Clutch master and brake master cylinders have 2 seals - one at the front of the piston and one at the rear where it is attached to the pedal linkage. The front one that does the work could leak and brake fluid simply flows back to the reservoir instead of supplying pressure to the slave cylinder - or leaking externally.
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ElGringo
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Re: Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by ElGringo »

Thank you for that detail, its not something I had even thought of. When I change out the master & slave Saturday, I'll see if I can pull them apart to where it failed.

Thank you all again for the replies and good info!!
ElGringo
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Re: Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by ElGringo »

MrMazda & Davemac, it was definitely something internal on the master or slave cylinders. When I pulled the master and drained the brake/clutch fluid, it was a grey/black color. I didn't pull the internal parts out yet, but I might do that this afternoon out of curiosity.

I replaced both just to be on the safe side. Asides from a tight fit with the tools I had it was pretty painless getting the slave out. The master was a little rough getting to the nut on the inside of the car.

Just wanted to follow-up and express my appreciation again for the knowledge you guys shared! :)
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MrMazda92
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Re: Quick master/slave cylinder question

Post by MrMazda92 »

I'm definitely glad you got it figured out :)

It's an area I'm loathe to mess with, otherwise I would have done the MX6/MX3 hybrid setup to eek a little extra room for a straightneck. I've been holding out for a KLG4 engine, but the thought of a straightneck KLZE was pretty tempting!
Daily:
'12 Challenger R/T + STP - 3.92 w/ LSD, JG Cam, headers, SkipShift delete, Clutch Delay Valve delete, Hurst STS, RAM Clutch Adjuster, StopTech 6 Piston Brakes, Sticky Nittos, 435 WHP

Kid Hauler:
'08 Suburban LT 4WD - TVS 1900 Blower, LF SC Cam, headers, AFM delete, true 5" lift, 33x12s, 523 WHP

First Love:
'92 GS 5 spd - Straightneck KL/67mm TB, MegaSquirt/Coilpacks, 5 lugs/Speed6 brakes/FD wheels, wiretuck, coilovers, headers, AEM WB, Borla
Deleted: VAF/Power Steering/Air Conditioning/EGR/ABS/Auto Seatbelts/etc
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