Using O2 sensors from Probes and other vehicles question

[Juans_93_MX3]

Has anyone else tried using used O2 sensors from Probes, MX6s, Millenias?

The colors of the wires are different, but its easy to figure out sense all you have to do is match the connectors.

But anyway, I decided to go to the junkyard and pick up some O2 sensors (they dont charge me any money for them).
I installed them on my 93 MX3 and am not getting a check engine light.
Really, sense all these vehicles used practically the same engine and I am using a KLZE, I dont see the harm.

What do you guys think?
Good idea or bad?

[Daninski]

If the sensor is working you won't get a code but that doesn't mean it's working properly for your engine. Additionally the older an O2 sensor is the slower it responds, at least that's what I found.

[Juans_93_MX3]

If the sensor is working you won't get a code but that doesn't mean it's working properly for your engine. Additionally the older an O2 sensor is the slower it responds, at least that's what I found.

Good point. Just because I am not getting a CEL (check engine light), doesnt mean O2 sensor is working 100%.

Oh crap, may be the reason why it smelled like fuel when I turned on the car.

For those reading this thread, there is a interesting "one wire conversion" thread posted on ProbeTalk.com.
http://forums.probetalk.com/showthread. ... nning+rich

[Daninski]

Not sure how he raised his fuel economy. A stock O2 sensor will always work better as its made to work with the cars specific ECU. Now any new O2 sensor is bound to work better than an old one I agree with that. I just order from RockAuto.com they always have good prices.

[Juans_93_MX3]

Not sure how he raised his fuel economy. A stock O2 sensor will always work better as its made to work with the cars specific ECU. Now any new O2 sensor is bound to work better than an old one I agree with that. I just order from RockAuto.com they always have good prices.

Most aftermarket O2 sensors out there are universal O2 sensors.
So Im thinking that all O2 sensors work the exact same way like the people in that thread stated.

Anyway, its interesting to see that our O2 sensors have a heater inside of them.

[Nd4SpdSe]

I got universal 4-wire 02 sensors for a Probe when I replaced them for my Mx-3 when I did my headers, but I soldered them to the harness of the original O2's.

There's threads about 1-wire conversions on here somewhere. It was big talk quite a few years ago because they were cheaper, but the problem I see with 1-wire is that your using the header itself as a ground, which I could not call a reliable connection, not what I would suggest...People here tend to complain about poor fuel economy, it's cheap shortcuts like this that really don't help the situation.

The heater is there to help the 02 sensors get to operating help to get a more accurate reading sooner. My truck is throwing a code for a non-functioning heater on a seconday 02 on my truck since I got the headers installed, I need time to check that out. Hopefully this weekend....

[Daninski]

I got a code for no heater on the primary O2 on my Subie. Voltage to the plug so I ordered a new O2 (Standard Motor Products) from Egay for $105 delivered. $300+ at the Dealership, Rock auto had one for like $130.

[Nd4SpdSe]

I ordered brand new NGK's primaries through NAPA here in Quebec, 4 wire PnP, $69 each with the military discount

Should get a price on secondaries, but there's too much of a coincidence that the heater is shot after the headers install, so it's worth a check, but maybe they didn't like being disturbed....

[Juans_93_MX3]

I got universal 4-wire 02 sensors for a Probe when I replaced them for my Mx-3 when I did my headers, but I soldered them to the harness of the original O2's.

There's threads about 1-wire conversions on here somewhere. It was big talk quite a few years ago because they were cheaper, but the problem I see with 1-wire is that your using the header itself as a ground, which I could not call a reliable connection, not what I would suggest...People here tend to complain about poor fuel economy, it's cheap shortcuts like this that really don't help the situation.

The heater is there to help the 02 sensors get to operating help to get a more accurate reading sooner. My truck is throwing a code for a non-functioning heater on a seconday 02 on my truck since I got the headers installed, I need time to check that out. Hopefully this weekend....

Why would sensors that dont function well for the first 30 seconds really affect MPG?
From what I understand, these one plug sensors work well once heated up

Also, there have been cars in the past that have used headers as ground.

[Nd4SpdSe]

Why would sensors that dont function well for the first 30 seconds really affect MPG?
From what I understand, these one plug sensors work well once heated up

Also, there have been cars in the past that have used headers as ground.

An Oxygen sensor cannot operate unless it has reached its operating temperature. By heating the individual oxygen sensors, they reach their activation temperature sooner than those without heaters. Once an oxygen sensor reaches the activation temperature, the sensor is able to monitor the oxygen content of the exhaust more accurately. The vehicle operates in Closed Loop status once activation temperature is reached. Thus, the VCMs Fuel Trim corrections reduce the vehicles total emissions. Vehicles produce fewer emissions when they are in Closed Loop than in Open Loop.

With a sensor in closed loop for the majority of your drive you will experience better drivability because the ECM will not switch from open to closed loop as often. You may also see an increase in fuel economy. So if you are still operating with a non heated oxygen sensor and wish to see some benefits this procedure may be for you.

What's the difference between a "heated" and "unheated" oxygen sensor?

Heated oxygen sensors have an internal heater circuit that brings the sensor up to operating temperature more quickly than an unheated sensor. An oxygen sensor must be hot (about 600 to 650 degrees F) before it will generate a voltage signal. The hot exhaust from the engine will provide enough heat to bring an O2 sensor up to operating temperature, but it make take several minutes depending on ambient temperature, engine load and speed. During this time, the fuel feedback control system remains in "open loop" and does not use the O2 sensor signal to adjust the fuel mixture. This typically results in a rich fuel mixture, wasted fuel and higher emissions.

By adding an internal heater circuit to the oxygen sensor, voltage can be routed through the heater as soon as the engine starts to warm up the sensor. The heater element is a resistor that glows red hot when current passes through it. The heater will bring the sensor up to operating temperature within 20 to 60 seconds depending on the sensor, and also keep the oxygen sensor hot even when the engine is idling for a long period of time.

Heated O2 sensors typically have two-three or four wires (the extra wires are for the heater circuit). Note: Replacement O2 sensors must have the same number of wires as the original, and have the same internal resistance.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.ca/tech-info-o ... ensors.cfm

Single Wire
One wire carries the sensor signal while ground return is achieved through the vehicle body. Also referred to as an EGO Sensor. (Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor).


Two Wires
One wire is the sensor signal and the other is the sensor signal ground. Also referred to as an ISO-EGO Sensor (Isolated Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor). Both sensor signal wires are directly connected to one of the platinum electrodes on the ceramic element. The sensor output is immune to ground loop voltages and also to large resistances in the vehicle ground return, caused by corroded connections. There are also case grounded sensors that have the ground wire physically attached to the sensor body required for certain applications. It is not recommended to replace isolated ground sensors with case ground types.


Three Wires
One wire carries the signal and two wires are used to supply a voltage to the internal heater. Signal ground return is achieved through the vehicle body. Also referred to as a HEGO Sensor (Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor).


Four Wires
One wire is the sensor signal, one is the isolated sensor signal ground and the remaining two are used to supply a voltage to the internal heater. Also referred to as an ISO - HEGO Sensor (Isolated Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor).

In the end, use the the car was designed for. If other cars, older typically, but newer use those types of sensors, than so be it, but if Mazda's system isn't designed for a header-grounded system, than IMO, don't. Your grounding through heated metal (which will vary the electrical) resistance of the metal as the temperature changes), that's rusting from the elements on the outside, caked with carbon on the inside, with 2 sections with crushed metal gaskets, or you can use nice clean, shielded wire for an uninterrupted signal. We're talking about 1 single volt here total, it's a pretty precise measuring system that can easilly vary a large amount with a small bit of interference. Voltage is like water, it needs an in and an out to do what it needs to do; you need to complete the circuit to make it work...