Big Brake Kit: Possible Group Buy?

[numba13]

Im just trying to see how much interest there would be in doing a group buy on some brake kits for our car. I spoke to a guy named Brian (www.fastbrakes.com) and he was very interested in putting together a willwood front kit (calipers, rotors lines etc) and also upgrading the rear rotor size while utilizing the stock caliper. While he didnt have a set in stone number to give me, he ballparked the front kit at around the $650 mark and the rear at $210. Im hoping to round up around 7-10 people to make this as cheap as possible on everybody. Any questions just give me a shout!

Ryan

[Sleeper6]

I would be interested in a front set possibly, pending on the final price maybe even 2

[Dali]

I would be down fro front and rears of course depending on the price and what kind of setup it is in the end.

[wytbishop]

I've been over this and over it again.

There is no way, NO WAY, to adapt a Wilwood 4 piston caliper to the MX-3 front spindle without either modifying the spindle, or using a very, very large rotor...like 12"+. Which means that a larger than stock wheel is also required. A 13" front rotor, Dynalite calipers, Wilwood pads and some sort of adapter will cost more than $500 per side. And then you will need 17's if you don't already have them. And most likely the caliper will hit the wheel because Wilwood doesn't make a rotor hat with the same depth as ours so you'll need wheel spacers.

If someone figures out a way to do this for $650 for the front I'll retract everything I've ever said about the front brakes.

The rear is easy. 06' Mazdaspeed Miata calipers, rotors and 2 10mm washers and you're good to go.

[MrMazda92]

Wyt, is there a thorough guide on that swap?

[RS_OBD'oh_2]

I also doubt this will happen for that price. If it works and is a good price I'll think about it.

[mitmaks]

I'm interested depending on price

[bbunkerc397]

I'd be interested, what size caliper?

[Sleeper6]

Wyt, is there a thorough guide on that swap?

Check his worklog, thats why Im only interested in fronts

[MrMazda92]

Well this might help with your front upgrade: http://www.uk-mx3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2793

That's the route I'm planning for the front, exactly why the idea of the rears appealed to me

[wytbishop]

Fronts...

Well I was expecting to run into some sort of snag...there is always one...and sure enough.

When I picked up my 1st gen 626 caliper brackets the sider pins had been removed but I figured no problem...my Subaru calipers are complete, I can just transfer the Subaru ones to the 626 brackets. It would have been fine too except that one of them turned out to be seized and I had to cut it to get it out. I went to every parts outlet in town and they searched every one of their stores...and no one had one in stock in the entire city.

So I was stopped by a single fastener. But I got everything cleaned and painted and ready to install. And I was able to completely assemble one side to make sure everything fits...

Scrubbed and cleaned...


Painted the steering knuckles with black engine enamel. I'm hoping it will stand up well...


Note the different location of the caliper mounts...


Painted the brackets with Aluminum caliper paint and installed my one good slider pin...


Same Aluminum caliper paint and new rubber bits.


Here's the tricky bit. The 626 bracket is not perfectly centered on the rotor. The solution is to put a standard washer between the bracket and the spindle to move the braceket away from the spindle about 2mm. I tried 2 washers, but one washer is closer to being right in the middle.


The finished product...sort of.


I'll get them into the car next weekend.

I forgot to mention that I stopped at Pick n Pull on the way home and got everything I needed for $1.57.

I just tallied up everything I've purchased to make the two piston brake mod happen. It goes like this...

323F BA V6 spindles...$110 (I got a wicked deal from a UK member so that was mostly shipping)
EBC MX-3 blank Rotors...$100 (incl. shipping. I found the PO)
SS Brake lines...$40 (this is half the cost of the set I bought last year)
94' Subaru Legacy Turbo Wagon calipers...$115 ($45ea + shipping from a wrecker in Calgary)
89' MX-6 caliper brackets...$15
Brake pads...$70
Wheel bearings and seals...$80
MX-3 hubs...$20
Misc...$30 (paint for calipers and brake fluid and stuff)

TOTAL: ~$580

You could probably knock $$$ off that if you bought cheaper rotors (or more if you don't replace your rotors at all) and didn't buy SS brake lines and reused your existing hubs. I'm buying a second used set of hubs because I want to leave my stock spindles intact. The difficult part is finding the spindles and shipping them over. It took my contact over there a long time but in the end he found me a great deal. Don't expect to find a pair that cheap unless you get quite lucky.

As far as installation goes, the 323 spindles use 5 bolt hubs so they need to come out. They can be hammered out fairly easily, but you will at least have to have the new bearings and MX-3 hubs pressed in and you may have to press the inner races of the old bearings out if the seller of your spindles can't do it for you prior to shipping. All that said you will either need access to a press or take them to someone to be done which would cost a few dollars but not too much.

Other than that the whole thing just bolts on, however there will likely be a need of some wheel aligning after doing this. By all accounts the results are impressive.

I just read this, why do you use the 626 and subaru parts ?
Why not just the millenia like this:
http://uk-mx3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2793

Becuase you'll note that he had to do a lot of grinding to get the millenia brackets to bolt up to the steering knuckles.

I did not grind a single thing. The Subaru calipers bolt directly to the MX-6 brackets, which in turn bolt directly to the 323F knuckles.

Perfect fit, zero screwing around.

[wytbishop]

Rears...

OK so I did the rear Miata brake upgrade today. Went pretty smoothly, but there were a few things. I'll go from the beginning...

The Miata calipers were in excellent condition. They had been painted in the past so there was no surface rust on them. They are from a 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata w/ Sport Suspension. I disassembled them abit...nothing realy extensive, took a wire brush to them and got the flaking paint off and shot them with a couple of fresh coats of aluminum caliper paint.

Before paint...


After paint...




You're looking for the M160 forging. These are the calipers and brackets that fit.


I bought EBC rotors. They are very good quality and I think they were $29ea + shipping.

Note the difference in size. Not staggering, but noticaeble in the wheel.


The only big problem is the dust shields. The new rotors are more or less exactly the same diameter as the lip on the dust shield.


In order to remove the shields you have to remove the hub. Luckily I have had the hubs off recently when installing the poly bushings so there was no trouble here. I tried hammering the lip into a shape that would fit the rotors, but I didn't have the necessary tools to do it right. I will pick up a new pair and do it correctly. For now I installed them without shields. Not ideal, but temporary.

So remove the shields, reinstall the hubs and install the rotor and caliper. Here is another little thing that has to be adressed. The spacing is just slightly different than the stock caliper. All that is required is (2) 3/8" flat washers between the caliper bracket and the spindle on each bolt.



With these washers the rotor is centered perfectly.

I also installed new SS lines from an EBAY company called Silverstone. The lines are nice but the lug that is clipped into the tab on the shock body would not fit into the tab. The lines are so stiff that I don't think it would have been a good idea to clip them in there anyway, but I thought I should mention the fitment issue. The lines themselves are very nice. I did not have to buy Miata brake lines. The MX-3 ones fit just fine.

Here it is bolted together...



And here it is with the wheel in place before and after...

Before...


After...


Like I said. Not staggering but with a more open wheel and some blingier rotors it would be really sick.

The other issue which I did not show is the connection of the ebrake cable. The orientation of the bracket and lever of the E-brake are just slightly different and because the rotor is larger, the cable is now slightly longer that it has to be. These factors combine to create a lightly unnatural bend in the cable right at the caliper. but it's not an issue. The issue is that the stock cable has to be adjusted to the very end of its adjustment to tighten the cable. It does adjust but I would like to see if there's a cable set from another model that might fit better with these brackets.

So there you go...pretty simple. In the spring I will go to the trouble of replacing my cables. I was going to as my passenger side cable is broken, but you have to lower the exhaust and remove the heat shield to get them out and it was pretty cold today. I will also be doing the fronts with stock parts next weekend. Nothing new there.

[MrMazda92]

Thanks for posting this Charlie.

[numba13]

Sorry for the late reply gentlemen, it has been a pretty hectic week. I spoke to Brian at FastBrakes and he offered this response to hopefully answer some of your questions..

Our 1 piece rotor small 4 piston caliper kits typically list for between $675 and $825, depending on the kit.

The kits include slotted & drilled rotors, Wilwood 4 piston Dynalite aluminum calipers, performance street pads, mounting brackets with hardware and front braided steel brake lines.

The rear kit would have the larger slotted & drilled rotors with mounting brackets and hardware to move the factory caliper outward.

Have people go to Fastbrakes.com to see the variety of kits we make. These 2 kits are similar to the 11” kits we make for the 1992-1995 Honda Civic Si without ABS.

Pricing at $650 per front kit and $210 per rear kit is based upon 10 paid for buyers for each kit. This pricing is also dependent upon the kits not requiring anything unusual in the way of parts to be made, etc. I’m pretty good about estimating pricing, so it should be close.

Shipping in US for front kits would be $35 by USPS Priority Mail, rear kits $18 in US.

Canada front kit shipping, $75 Priority mail, rear kit $37.

thanks

If you guys have any further questions feel free to fire away and I will do my best to get them answered in a timely fashion. Ive known quite a few guys that have dealt with Brian in the past and hes very reputable, honest and experienced.. Im not sure how he makes alot of money doing this kits for as cheap as he does but hey, im not complainin'

Thanks,

Ryan

[Sleeper6]

Im very interested at that price, just one question is that can we use stock wheels or do we need larger wheels to make this happen. Thats a steal at that price, wyts idea is fantastic too but good luck getting a reasonable lead on 323 v6 spindles. Last set I found they wanted $700 for JUST the spindles, no shipping, no brackets no rotors.

So some info on the wheels we can use and that would be great.