How to diagnose suspension/brakes

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Ryan
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How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Ryan »

Alrighty, I read lots of threads on strange noises and issues... so here is a sticky in the making.

Lets go over our suspension anatomy, to get some terms laid down so we're all on the same page, then some trouble shooting.

Front Suspension

Front Strut Assembly

The purpose of this assembly is to bear the entire weight of the vehicle, as well as absorb road imperfections etc.

Strut mount - This is the rubber part you can see from the engine bay, its that rubber isolator type thing with the nut in the middle. This thing helps the strut absorb the lateral forces induced by the moment caused by the force between the wheel and ground, pivoting around the lower ball joint. Also, it helps quell vibrations through the strut assembly. As well, rotating this (in the 90º positions) is how you adjust camber.

If this thing goes bad, your strut will blow out the top and make a dent in your hood or break your rear hatch glass. This doesn't really happen, as most neglected suspension systems have dead struts that won't expand on their own any more, hence the isolator does not carry much load.

Thrust bearing - This is a very important part. Since your front strut assemblies turn with the tires, this allows the strut to turn against the strut mount. It is a little bearing pack that holds ALL of the weight of your car.

If this goes bad, your steering may make a popping/popple/crunch/grinding noise when you turn the steering wheel at any speed, even stopped.

Coil spring - This holds the weight of your car and absorbs the impacts caused by bumps.

If this breaks, your car will sit slightly lower, you may puncture a tire, and it will pretty much just ride like crap. There is a recall on the front springs.
Recall – ID# 19979
thread link


Strut - This stops the spring from oscilating, causing irritating vibrations in the cabin, and making it ride like crap and bouncing uncontrollably all over the road.

If this blows... you'll notice a lot of stuff. The hard thing is, they usually go slowly, so you won't just realize it one day. When you hit shorter little bumps in the road that jar the steering wheel, in your feet you'll feel the vibrations that take just a moment to taper off. You'll also notice the car doing big bounces when you hit larger deeper holes. This is always easy to spot in the car infront of you.

If you have a strut loose, its still good if you compress it with your body weight and it comes back up under its own power.

Knuckle

This is the part that the wheel is bolted to. The wheel bearing is what allows the wheel to turn independently of the knuckle, it is pressed in. The axle comes through the centre of the wheel bearing. The hub is the part that holds the wheel studs.

The caliper bolts to the knuckle, and grips the brake disc, which is sandwiched between the hub and the wheel, held together by the wheel nuts.

The tie rod end is the part that connects the steering rack to the wheel, so you can turn.

The ball joint is the thing right on the bottom that holds the lower control arm to the knuckle.

The Control Arm

This part absorbs 99% of the lateral forces caused by cornering. Its connected to the body via bushings, and the knuckle via the ball joint.

If this breaks, you will have noticed, because you probably hit a massive pothole or a curb and now your car shimmies horribly and probably doesn't drive straight any more.


The Axle

This transfers the power from the transaxle to the wheel.

If it goes bad, you'll notice a clicking at low speeds when you have the wheel turned pretty far. Just go to a parking lot and drive in a tight figure 8 and listen out the windows, you can't miss it.

You may also notice a slight noise when just switching from forward to reverse, loading the axle in the other direction.

If the boot is cracked/leaking grease, the CV is going to die very soon unless you repair the boot. Don't re-boot a dead axle though.

The Sway Bar (stabilizer bar)

This connects the right and left side of the suspension to help reduce body roll, which is generally a bad thing. The end link holds the bar to the control arm.

When the end link goes bad, you probably can't feel it as they usually go slowly, but you will notice more body roll. They also sometimes go with a bang in a hard corner.

You need the end links to pass safety inspections. If they are loose at all, you'll fail. Grab it at each joint and jerk it in all directions and twist. Any looseness at all -> cooked.

Our endlinks suck. If you have a good relationship with your parts store, try to find an equivalent shape from another model... I hear some Altima ones work. Or Wytendlinks.

Upgrading the sway bar in the rear will help the car be more neutral in corners. -> good.

The Caliper

This is your brake. It presses the brake pads against the rotor, making friction making you stop.

The calipers usually seize. You may notice your brake pads wearing much fasther than usual, glowing rotors, poor milage, and maybe brake noise.


Mazda's troubleshooting guide: link
Okay, general questions I see:

Q-"My car makes a whirring noise at highway speed"
A-Wheel bearing!

Q-"Car makes a clunking noise over bumps"
A- Strut, thrust bearing, end links, ball joint, broken spring

Q-"Car makes single clicking noise going from reverse to 1st or from a stop"
A- thrust bearing, broken spring, strut, end links, CV

Q-
Patass wrote:Whistling only while gas pedal pressed in certain ways. Usually just lightly when maintaining speed. I bottom out a lot because the roads around me are crap. Lately a grinding noise has appeared along side it, under the same conditions. If i take my foot off the pedal the noises stop. Turning has no effect on it.
A- Do you have an aftermarket intake at all? The throttle plate is a sharp edge, and air moving past a sharp edge will cause a whisling noise. Bottoming your car out won't make your car make throttle-dependent noises.
Last edited by Ryan on May 15th, 2011, 9:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ryan
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Ryan »

A Good routine to go over:

Jack her up!

Image

Grab the tire at Red and Blue and try to rock it. If it makes any sort of click/bump/shift that you can feel or hear, take note, it could be wheel bearing or ball joint.

Grab it at Green and Yellow and try to rock it. If it makes any sort of click/bump/shift that you can feel or hear, take note, it could be inner tie rod, or outer tie rod, or wheel bearing.

Grab at two opposing 45º spots and do it again. If it still does, it points more to wheel bearing.

If it wiggles in all directions, and the next tests all check out, suspect wheel bearing.


Image

Grab the outer tie rod end. Try and rotate it, it should be stiff, not loose.

Yank it up and down, it should not move AT ALL.

Inspect the boot. Torn boot -> part will die soon.

Image

Grab the inner tie rod end. Jerk it in all 4 directions. (left right up down, not in and out) It shouldn't move AT ALL.

Image

Jack it so both front tires are off the ground, or the stab link will be under load and not yield to your wiggles.

It shouldn't move AT ALL. Try to twist the knuckles, they should be stiff, not loose.

Inspect the boots, torn boot -> part will die soon.

Image

This is a ball joint (big size post)

On the car, simply inspect the boot. If its torn, and the wheel made noise/moved only on the top/bottom wiggle test, suspect it to be toast.

Off the car, grab the post and wiggle it in all directions. It should be stiff enough that it is VERY difficult to move it by hand. Loose -> dead.



While you're under there, check for a broken spring, you can't really miss that. Usually breaks at the bottom in the front, and the the top in the rear.


The rear suspension is much easier, just stab links and wheel bearings to check.



Any questions, please post... and suggestions.... etc.
Last edited by Ryan on May 21st, 2011, 1:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Now with Moderator power!

Black '93 BP RS - wrecked, parted, scrapped.
Green GS - Sold.
Black GS - Summer DD/Race car - Fancy KLZE
Red GS - K8-ATX -> MTX-KLDE - Frakencar. Scrapped
White GS - Rusty. Parts. Scrapped
1997 BMW M3 - my summer baby
2002 BMW 325Xi - sold
2003 Forester Xti - EJ20K swapped.
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Patass
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Patass »

None of these describe the problem in my thread.

Whistling only while gas pedal pressed in certain ways. Usually just lightly when maintaining speed. I bottom out a lot because the roads around me are crap. Lately a grinding noise has appeared along side it, under the same conditions. If i take my foot off the pedal the noises stop. Turning has no effect on it.
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Ryan »

Does it do it in and out of gear? rolling speed dependent, or engine speed dependent?
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Patass »

The second i take my foot off the pedal, or start accelerating, the whistling and grinding stop. It does not do it in neutral. It does do it in the gear just below drive (95 mx-3). It starts at about 30. The sweet spot seems to be 45. Havent been on the highway in awhile so I dont know about speeds above 55.
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Ryan »

Its an ATX. I have no idea, it could be anything inside that black magic box. Whats the fluid like? Smell burnt? black/brackish?

We always suggest installing a better than factory transmission cooler to postpone its death...
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Patass »

you've totally lost me. What am I looking for and where is it?
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Ryan
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Ryan »

I meant that I have very little clue about the automatic transmissions.

Check the fluid, there will be a dipstick. It should be red or gold. If its black, and smells like burnt gear oil, then replace it, and install an aftermarket cooler.

The automatic transmissions are known to be shoddy, and the cooler is the best way to increase their lifespan. The noise is likely transmission related, not suspension.
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Patass »

The fluid looks almost pink/purple...or very bright red. I dont THINK it smells burned...I'm scared now because my girlfriend just spent a grand on her transmission, but hers was grinding all the time non stop. I'm driving in a way that almost eliminates this noise and and i might take it to a shop this afternoon.


EDIT - It's the rear motor mount. My car's been ultra shakey forever when idling, and I guess it finally got worse.
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Ryan »

Added a little walkthrough to the second post :)
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by MrMazda92 »

Ryan wrote:The noise is likely transmission related, not suspension.
Quoted for absolute truth...

I've got a MTX, but I have these EXACT same symptoms at consistent speeds. I find it's easiest to hear them with the windows up however, and mine started immediately after my tranny swap. For me, it was pretty obvious where the noise came from... It didn't make it any less annoying though. Good luck, and definitely go for the trans cooler! Problem or not, it'll do you good. For what it's worth, you'd enjoy the car much more as a 5 speed. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=65792 Is where that journey might begin, if you are so inclined! :welder:
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Jforce »

So i guess this would be an example of a bad outer tie rod end?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCvWYoguwqA
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Ryan »

Absolutely :)
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by MrMazda92 »

So Ryan, I went through your guide here and started with the "wiggle" test on all 4 corners.

My left rear allowed noticeable movement top to bottom(red/blue grip), although there was no noticeable damage to the ball joint boot. The 45 degree positions yielded no noticeable movement, would you go with the ball joint being the more likely culprit?
Daily:
'12 Challenger R/T + STP - 3.92 w/ LSD, JG Cam, headers, SkipShift delete, Clutch Delay Valve delete, Hurst STS, RAM Clutch Adjuster, StopTech 6 Piston Brakes, Sticky Nittos, 435 WHP

Kid Hauler:
'08 Suburban LT 4WD - TVS 1900 Blower, LF SC Cam, headers, AFM delete, true 5" lift, 33x12s, 523 WHP

First Love:
'92 GS 5 spd - Straightneck KL/67mm TB, MegaSquirt/Coilpacks, 5 lugs/Speed6 brakes/FD wheels, wiretuck, coilovers, headers, AEM WB, Borla
Deleted: VAF/Power Steering/Air Conditioning/EGR/ABS/Auto Seatbelts/etc
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Ryan
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Re: How to diagnose suspension/brakes

Post by Ryan »

No, as there is no ball joint in the rear.

Bushings, or strut mount, or strut itself.

If you lean all your weight on that corner and then jump off, does it spring back in one motion, or bounce once?
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White GS - Rusty. Parts. Scrapped
1997 BMW M3 - my summer baby
2002 BMW 325Xi - sold
2003 Forester Xti - EJ20K swapped.
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