MX-3.com

I know its been posted agian and agian,But i wonna get the clear from you boys before i go ahead.I got a late KLDE longneck KL31 ecu JE50 in my mx3.Got anouther mx3 with a KLZE but with a blown head gasket,Thinking of putting the KL31 cames in the KLDE.Wots the power gains if any and if its worth the effort.I know i wont have the flat top pistons and high compresion from my old KLZE just thought you guys can tell me yes or no with swapping cams..Thanks for your time and help pplz..

Just get the new head gaskets for your ZE. I doubt you'll get more than 5 to 10 extra HP by only swapping cams.

Yes it's been proven to add power! Something like 7whp.

Why not dyno the before and after power difference since no one else seems to have done this?

I'd say cams are the biggest difference between the DE and ZE.

RX8SE3P wrote:Why not dyno the before and after power difference since no one else seems to have done this?

I'd say cams are the biggest difference between the DE and ZE.

That'd be a great idea. That way we can cut the speculation a little...

I think the biggest power difference comes from the CR increase.

RX8SE3P wrote:I'd say cams are the biggest difference between the DE and ZE.

Inodoro Pereyra wrote:[I think the biggest power difference comes from the CR increase.

Or everything that makes a ZE a ZE

Regardless, why would you want to.

DE + $250 for ZE cams + $100 dyno test = should of spent the money on ZE

Nd4SpdSe wrote:Or everything that makes a ZE a ZE

Regardless, why would you want to.

DE + $250 for ZE cams + $100 dyno test = should of spent the money on ZE

"Everything that makes a ZE a ZE" is the heads (that he already has on his late DE), the camshafts, and the higher CR.

Maybe you should read the OP's post again. He already has the DE and the ZE cams. He's asking if it's worth it to do the swap.

Inodoro Pereyra wrote:

Nd4SpdSe wrote:Or everything that makes a ZE a ZE

Regardless, why would you want to.

DE + $250 for ZE cams + $100 dyno test = should of spent the money on ZE

"Everything that makes a ZE a ZE" is the heads (that he already has on his late DE), the camshafts, and the higher CR.

Maybe you should read the OP's post again. He already has the DE and the ZE cams. He's asking if it's worth it to do the swap.

A late KLDE is the KLG4 DE which does NOT have ZE heads. The only domestic engine that has ZE heads is the Millenia one. Maybe you should be the one to read some more. There are more things that make a ZE a ZE: Heads, pistons, cams, intake manifold, no EGR.

Firstly, it was a comment because you guys are arguing about what specific part of a ZE makes it's power over the DE, well it's not a specific thing, but it's a combination of things, few hp here, few hp there, and you get your 198hp

Secondly, it's mostly for those that think it's a worthwhile swap to get a DE and put in ZE cams to save money it's not worth it, ESPECIALLY if you want to waste more money to see how much of a power gain you'll get at a dyno. It's an increase over DE cams, and leave it at that, if anyone has money to turn by dyno testing minor upgrades on a DE than so be it, so knowing the specifics of that upgrade is never going to happen. Same with putting a ZE IM on a DE, despite the mis-matched ports there's still a reported increase in power. You can check ProbeTalk, people probably did dynos on both those mods when the engines were more expensive and it was worth looking into, but no one will bother with testing those nowadays...

Thirdly, if he had a late-DE, it's got solid lifters and will not take regular KL cams...DE or ZE alike.

Nd4SpdSe wrote:Firstly, it was a comment because you guys are arguing about what specific part of a ZE makes it's power over the DE, well it's not a specific thing, but it's a combination of things, few hp here, few hp there, and you get your 198hp

Secondly, it's mostly for those that think it's a worthwhile swap to get a DE and put in ZE cams to save money it's not worth it, ESPECIALLY if you want to waste more money to see how much of a power gain you'll get at a dyno. It's an increase over DE cams, and leave it at that, if anyone has money to turn by dyno testing minor upgrades on a DE than so be it, so knowing the specifics of that upgrade is never going to happen. Same with putting a ZE IM on a DE, despite the mis-matched ports there's still a reported increase in power. You can check ProbeTalk, people probably did dynos on both those mods when the engines were more expensive and it was worth looking into, but no one will bother with testing those nowadays...

Thirdly, if he had a late-DE, it's got solid lifters and will not take regular KL cams...DE or ZE alike.

Again, you're not reading. Nobody is arguing about what specific part of the ZE makes the power. We are GIVING OUR OPINIONS about what part of the ZE makes THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE BY ITSELF on a DE. And, yeah, we're all aware it's the combination of all that makes the whole.

Secondly, nobody is talking about getting a DE and putting in ZE cams. The OP specifically said he ALREADY HAS both a non working ZE, and a late DE, and he specifically asked if swapping the cams from the ZE HE ALREADY HAS into the late DE HE ALSO HAS is worth it. And if you READ my first reply to his question, you will SEE I already said it's not.

Thirdly, you're dead wrong. The late Millenia DE does NOT have solid lifters. The KL-G4 has solid lifters. And the KL-G4 came on the 626, not on the Millenia.

Nd4SpdSe wrote:

RX8SE3P wrote:I'd say cams are the biggest difference between the DE and ZE.

Inodoro Pereyra wrote:[I think the biggest power difference comes from the CR increase.

Or everything that makes a ZE a ZE

Regardless, why would you want to.

DE + $250 for ZE cams + $100 dyno test = should of spent the money on ZE

Well people are wasting much more than that on their suspension, exhausts, clutches, super light weight flywheels, rims, paintjobs etc. Don't see why it would be a bad idea considering he already own these cams.


A: Car tuned perfectly with DE cams = X horsepower
B: Exact same setup running perfect with ZE cams = X horsepower

And the owners opinion to go with it. Would be a great thread.

Please read that he already owns these cams from his failed ZE engine. So I don't see why you think he is wasting $250 or whatever amount. Also, my suggestion was t dyno, he might not.

All this seems to cost him will be his own labour time. I say go for it, it WILL produce more power, but will need to rev slightly higher. If I ONLY had something like a DE MX6 or MX3 and I came across some free cams, I'd definitely put them in. Combine some headers whilst the engine is out and you will have noticeable power improvement.

Millenias have de-tuned/domestic ZEs, not DEs. Hence why there's the whole curved-neck ZE/straight-neck ZE mishap out there. Get your facts straight.

Inodoro Pereyra wrote:Again, you're not reading. Nobody is arguing about what specific part of the ZE makes the power. We are GIVING OUR OPINIONS about what part of the ZE makes THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE BY ITSELF on a DE. And, yeah, we're all aware it's the combination of all that makes the whole.

Secondly, nobody is talking about getting a DE and putting in ZE cams. The OP specifically said he ALREADY HAS both a non working ZE, and a late DE, and he specifically asked if swapping the cams from the ZE HE ALREADY HAS into the late DE HE ALSO HAS is worth it. And if you READ my first reply to his question, you will SEE I already said it's not.

Thirdly, you're dead wrong. The late Millenia DE does NOT have solid lifters. The KL-G4 has solid lifters. And the KL-G4 came on the 626, not on the Millenia.

Indeed I did read the OP, but that's more for you guys since you're the ones with the bright idea of getting cams and getting it dyno'd, I can see you guys maybe wasting the money on such a pointless step unless. Unless you're in a dire need of a swap and can't afford a ZE, just want and get the ZE to start with the exception of those wanting to boost or a block to stat a custom build.

I read what he had, and yes I know he's got the cams basically for free, and pending he does the labor himself, or cheaply, yes it's worth it. A few extra Hp isn't a bad thing....

Thirdly, he said Late-DE with a longneck. Unless he's mistaken with that motor, that 100% the description of DE out of a 626, and that does have the solid lifters, not compatible with any other cams.

RX8SE3P wrote: A: Car tuned perfectly with DE cams = X horsepower
B: Exact same setup running perfect with ZE cams = X horsepower

And the owners opinion to go with it. Would be a great thread.

Please read that he already owns these cams from his failed ZE engine. So I don't see why you think he is wasting $250 or whatever amount. Also, my suggestion was t dyno, he might not.

I appreciate your enthousiasm, but you're about 5 years too late. No one will spend the time and money on doing those processes anymore.

I don't think he's wasting $250, I'm saying that it's a pointess process to spend money on swapping to a DE THAN doing out and picking up ZE cams, especially if you want to find out for shits and giggles how much of a power improvement there is; why waste money doing R&D on intermidiate power improvements is what I'm saying.

Nd4SpdSe wrote:
Indeed I did read the OP, but that's more for you guys since you're the ones with the bright idea of getting cams and getting it dyno'd, I can see you guys maybe wasting the money on such a pointless step unless. Unless you're in a dire need of a swap and can't afford a ZE, just want and get the ZE to start with the exception of those wanting to boost or a block to stat a custom build.

I read what he had, and yes I know he's got the cams basically for free, and pending he does the labor himself, or cheaply, yes it's worth it. A few extra Hp isn't a bad thing....

Thirdly, he said Late-DE with a longneck. Unless he's mistaken with that motor, that 100% the description of DE out of a 626, and that does have the solid lifters, not compatible with any other cams.

Indeed you did read the op, but you still keep on saying WE came with the "bright idea" of swapping cams...
Maybe you need some direction:

eunosklde wrote:
...,Thinking of putting the KL31 cames in the KLDE.Wots the power gains if any and if its worth the effort.

Maybe now you got it?

And yes, RX8 came with the idea of dynoing the engine, and yes, it's a bright idea, whether you like it or not. It's called "research", and it provides "knowledge". And if you ask any serious engine builder, they will all tell you the right way to do any engine modification is to do a before and after dyno run, to know exactly what kind of difference that mod made, and ultimately, if it's worth it or not.

Will the mod be worth it?
Nobody knows, precisely because NOBODY in the past took the time and money and "wasted them" on doing the research, so now, all you have is speculation.
Other than that, I'm sure the OP is adult enough to decide for himself if dynoing his cam is worth it or not, and doesn't need anybody to hold his hand, or to tell him what to do with his money. HE asked if the mod was worth it, and the fact is HE will have to find out for himself (if HE so decides), because NOBODY in the past did things properly, so now, all he has to work with are "opinions".

Thirdly, he said he had a late DE with a longneck, not a straightneck. And he never specified if his engine CAME with that IM, or if he added it to it. Ad no, that doesn't "100% fit the description " of a DE with solid lifters, simply because there's NO SUCH THING as a DE with solid lifters. The ONLY KL engine to come with solid lifters from the factory is the KL-G4, which is NOT a DE, same way the ZE is not a DE. Just a different model. Sorry.
Besides that, he said he has a KL31 ECU. That alone says clearly he DOESN'T have a G4, since the KL31 can not drive the coil pack.

Inodoro Pereyra wrote:he said he had a late DE with a longneck, not a straightneck. And he never specified if his engine CAME with that IM, or if he added it to it. Ad no, that doesn't "100% fit the description " of a DE with solid lifters, simply because there's NO SUCH THING as a DE with solid lifters. The ONLY KL engine to come with solid lifters from the factory is the KL-G4, which is NOT a DE, same way the ZE is not a DE. Just a different model. Sorry.
Besides that, he said he has a KL31 ECU. That alone says clearly he DOESN'T have a G4, since the KL31 can not drive the coil pack.

I don't even know why I bother posting on this board, cause apparently I know d--- and all you newcommers know everything.

Everything above that you said is wrong and I'm not going to correct you, you n00bs can do f--- yourself and bring down this site with all your false information, that's all you guys have been doing!