Timing question

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Ok, so I'm trying to fix my MX-6 KL-DE.
This time, the cheapo timing belt I bought at Rockauto.com lost half it's teeth, so I decided to cut to the chase, and go buy a Dayco belt at AAP.
Then, when I was about to install the new belt, all of a sudden I realized that all this time I may have been making a big mistake.
So here it is:
When you look at the camshaft sprockets, each one of them has a cast letter and an arrow in one of the radiuses: L for the front (left, obviously) bank, and R for the right one.
But then, on the lip of the sprockets, there's a yellow paint dot. The one in the left sprocket coincides (more or less) with the arrow, but the one on the right one is almost opposite to it.

I have been using the arrows as timing marks. Am I doing it right, or should I use the yellow dots?

Thanks in advance.

[Daninski]

This may help. I only read about half the post. http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.ph ... ng#p474989" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Thank you Dan.
I've been doing some research, and yeah, I messed up. Fortunately I figured I was wrong before installing the belt this time...

[mazdags94]

There are imprints (dots) cast into each cam gear and then to help you see them better, there is yellow paint dotted on it. Your right cyl head cam gear will have two timing marks and the left cyl head cam gear will have one. Line those up with the notches on each cyl head (timing marks) and install your timing belt.

Looking back on it, it was a "duh" moment for me... lol

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Thank you both.
I just finished reassembling everything less than an hour ago, and everything works perfectly. The engine is smooth as silk, and has power to spare.
Amazing the difference between running a KL-DE on 3 cylinders, and on 6...

[Ryan]

The yellow dots are supposed to highlight the marks on the gears.

On the right(rear) head, there are two marks that line up with bumps on the head at almost 12:00, as well as a single mark that lines up with another mark more-or-less in the same orientation as the front(left) head. on the front(left) head, there is one notch on the inside rim of the pulley, on the sproket with the L and the arrow, and it goes to a similar bump at approximately 10:00. There is a notch in the back of the crank gear that lines up with an arrow cast into the block behind it at 12:00.

Also, I've found that I often wound up being 1 tooth off. If you rotate the cams one tooth over the marks, clockwise, before setting the tensioner, it may work out for you. It did for me.

I did this today again and had to do a bit of playing.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Just to make this clear, the yellow marks on the pulleys mean nothing. They're very likely from factory for some assembly process.

Just to make this clear, you're dead wrong... (Sorry, couldn't help it )

On the left bank sprocket, the mark on the inside lip coincides exactly with the yellow dot on the outside lip. On the right bank sprocket, the yellow dot lines up perfectly with the rear timing tab (which is in the same relative place as the left one) when the 2 extra dots line up with the top tabs.
Yesterday, I could finally reassemble the engine (using the yellow dots) and it just changed completely. Long story short, the guy who'd came from Virginia had stuck around, and now the car is with him, in Norfolk. We talked on the phone today, and he said the engine behaved perfectly all the way.

My method to install the TB (in case it may help) is: Once I put all 3 sprockets in the right position, I put the belt in place on the crankshaft sprocket, and hold it in place with either a paper towel or a rag (stuffing it between the belt and the dust shield around it), then I stretch the belt, put it on one of the camshaft sprockets, and hold it with a clamp, or a clothespin. I do the same on the other sprocket, and then install the upper idler. Once I pulled the tensioner pin, everything falls in place.

[Ryan]

Well maybe your yellow dots line up, but I just re-timed my black car (after a piece of rubber from the timing covers fell inside and buggered the timing. 3 teeth on the rear head, and 1 on the front) how I said there, and it runs like a kitten. I didn't have any yellow on the right head, and the one on the left was about 60º from the actual mark.


But now that I look at my spare cam gears...


there are actually 3 marks on the 'right side' gear. I think all 3 can line up. the pair have no yellow, and the lonely one has a yellow dot.

on the 'right side' gear, the yellow dot coincides with the only mark.



So, we're pretty much saying the same thing. I just used the two marks instead of the rear mark, which I didn't find. I suppose it doesn't matter what you use.

But I swear the left head on my black car, the yellow was way off. I made my own mark with white-out. it was honestly somewhere around 120 degrees out. The car wouldn't run like that.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Yep, it seems we keep on disagreeing while saying the same. We're just a pair of crazies...
For what I read here:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/35257669/Fo ... Eric-Leska

it seems the 2 marks are supplementary marks made to make timing with the engine in the car easier (thanks Mazda).

Actually, if you use the wrong mark, the engine does run, and that's the problem. It only runs on 3 cylinders, so it shakes a lot, and has no power, and you start getting CELs up the wazoo (knock sensor, misfires, even cam position sensor), and, the most important part, it bends the idler bolt every few miles, and if you put a stronger bolt, it starts breaking the belt.

I was actually using the arrows as timing marks, so my right bank was almost 180º off, and I drove the car about 600 miles like that.

Oh, and to make it even better, it drinks gas like it's free...

[Ryan]

its surprising how you can abuse the timing and these still run


I edited my first post so its correct now

[tripleMX-3chicMS]

Im reading along.... and just when i think you guys have it.... (so i can lock it in my memory)
you go and change it on me..... LOL! So what was the out come? Cuz, the timing is a super scary
thing to me. It can ruin stuff with little effort. I will agree, the capability to keep running when
everything is not quite right.. is amazing to me.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Im reading along.... and just when i think you guys have it.... (so i can lock it in my memory)
you go and chnage it on me..... LOL! So what was the out come?

You have to use the yellow dot on the left bank, and either the yellow dot or the 2 unpainted dots on the right bank. On the right bank you'll see 2 extra alignment tabs, on the edge of the valve cover, that should coincide with the 2 unpainted marks.

The outcome is...amazing!!! After driving the 6 on 3 cylinders for more than 8 months, once the timing was right, I found myself smiling like an idiot at the wheel...
Now I'm dayreaming about getting an MX-3 ASAP, and dropping a ZE on it...

[Ryan]

and, make sure there is a little mark under the yellow dot, because I'm not convinced it was correct on my black car

[mazdags94]

and, make sure there is a little mark under the yellow dot, because I'm not convinced it was correct on my black car

do you think your cams weren't timed correctly then ryan?

I ask because I've done this three times and each time the yellow dots lined up and timed it perfectly. If your cams are off, your timing will always be off...

Not saying you're wrong but I'm just curious.

[Ryan]

I'm thinking I'm crazy.

Or my dot rubbed off. Or it was misplaced at factory (probably improbable)

But I do distinctly remember making my own mark with white-out. It was only a few days ago. And it runs good.