too sell or not to sell... to turbo or...

mx3biotch · Post by **mx3biotch** » August 1st, 2007, 3:58 pm

okay, haha, hey guys, so I got my car running, turned out it was my distributor.

Now I have black/blue smoke pouring out my exhaust along with straight oil.

Enough said.. I'm lookin for a new KLZE. What do you guys think of this one?
http://www.jdmsource.ca/v2/product.asp?ID=72

I'm going to phone for compression results and whatnot... I'd swap the KL31 cams out of my current engine I think.

Now.. after I do that swap, which I'd be doin on my own cuz I can barely afford this. My car isn't fast enough for me anymore! I don't want to spend megabucks sending it away to get turbo'd, I'm not doing NOS so how hard is it to do a turbo setup? I learn quickly and I'd like to give it a try but I don't want to sell my car, I was considering selling it for an rx7... then I noticed the oil out the exhaust!!! Here is my car now...
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s275 ... G_0718.jpg
I love it too much to sell it!!! But I want it faster, haha, I wish there was someone else here with a KLZE who knew the engine to help me!!

blackops032 · Post by **blackops032** » August 1st, 2007, 6:40 pm

there are pipes available for that. if not...get a welder and bend yor own tubing and weld on the flanges. it cant be that hard if you are familiar with fabrication

mx3biotch · Post by **mx3biotch** » August 1st, 2007, 9:20 pm

flanges? lol, see i dont know much about turbo's but like i said, i learn fast, helps to see stuff rather than hear it.. i might try adding lucas engine treatment to the oil and pawn it off on someone...

mx3biotch · Post by **mx3biotch** » August 3rd, 2007, 6:38 pm

do i ask dumb questions? or does no one feel like giving any input?

Suresperance · Post by **Suresperance** » August 3rd, 2007, 7:23 pm

you dont ask dumb questions. first off there is a hell of alot that goes into a turbo build. a ZE is damn fast. if thats not good enough for you then you can turbo it. but with the high compression of a ZE you will only be able to run like 5-7 lbs of boost to be safe. that would only build minimum HP as far as turbos go. so you would have to build your internals to handle more boost. all in all in the end it could cost up to 4*5 grand for 100-150 HP if money is tight then that is easily out of the question.

you can get a KL-DE instead of a ZE it has lower compression and would handle boost better. it also has a better valve train. it comes with less HP stock but i think it would be better for boost.

as far as N2O goes ... its a great and easy way to gain HP. it might only be for a few seconds but a ZE could handle a 75 shot no prob. thats 75 WHP on demand. its easy to install and not too expensive to refill i think its like 3 dollars a lb or some thing like that a 10lb bottle could get you some track fun and only cost you 30 bucks to refill.

RX-7 are extremely unreliable cars. and have what 250 HP on the TT models. so you have the same HP as a good modded ZE but with non of the reliablity. you wont even be able to find a twin turbo for less than 12 grand so again if money is tight that is also out of the question. the cheeper 2nd gen only has like 200 HP at best so you would be in the same boat as the ZE.

not sure if i helped at all but i would stick the the lighter car(MX-3) and work on saving for a turbo build.

mx3biotch · Post by **mx3biotch** » August 3rd, 2007, 10:49 pm

money isn't thaaaat tight, just right now it is since i just bought a land rover as a second vehicle whenever my car isnt running cuz it was too good a deal to pass up, lol and work is really slowing down(I work in the oilpatch in Alberta).
And yea, a 13B Twin Turbo rx7 comes stock with 255 hp, easily tuned to 300 I believe if done right. But the potential is much higher and it is RWD and has a 50:50 weight ratio which would be cool. I expect it to be fairly unreliable but it is a price I'm willing to pay to have the only 3rd Gen Rx7 in my city because I like having a car that stands out and that I appreciate too.

(cant get enough of mazdas i guess)

I just don't want to put an insane amount of money into my mx3 if I don't keep it, as I've already put in 2,000 dollars over breakup just to keep it running!!

I've looked into doing a turbo properly since I don't think I could do it myself and I would be looking at spending about ten grand I figure to do it properly, building the engine from inside out to handle higher boost..

I have two main questions.. I think the oil could either probably be a valve or maybe my piston rings? So my dilemna is do I rebuild it ( which I would be doing mainly on my own with maybe some help whenever I can bribe someone with a case of beer!) and stick with my engine now...

Or do I just swap out a new engine? I found this one here... >> http://www.jdmsource.ca/v2/product.asp?ID=72

But it is not the same as the one I have, I think I have the curved millenia intake manifold? So a big question here is can I use my intake manifold off my old engine on this one here? That would be nice since I like it better (sounds stupid probably, haha) and if I can use my old one then I wouldn't have to chance my CAI to fit the intake manifold from jdmsource!! I would also salvage my KL31 cams from the engine in my car now.

And another question if anyone has done a port and polish is did you notice a very big improvement? I figure if I take my engine apart and decide to keep the car, should I do that as well while it is apart and if anyone has some ideas on what I could do to improve the performance of my engine while it is apart that would be really appreciated too!

I had car buddies that used to help me all the time and we were best buds but they got girlfriends and their girlfriends wont let them talk to me so I'm on my own now!

ScooterBovine · Post by **ScooterBovine** » August 4th, 2007, 1:34 am

If you already have a KLZE, and want to turbo it, you'd want to upgrade the motor's internals anyways. So... While you are in there, replace the rings and seals and all that along with adding in performance parts. So the money you WOULD be spending on a NEW motor would instead be spent on upgrading and fixing your current motor that you ALREADY know is a KLZE. Also, contrary to popular belief, turboing a higher compression motor can actually yield higher gains, you just have to be ALOT more careful about the tuning process. Reference this link for more details:

http://www.mx-3.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=41406

Here is an exerpt:

Why should I consider a higher compression motor, while making my decision of what motor will suit my needs?
Different from a low compression motor, a higher compression motor will not give you a large margin of error, when tuning. As stated before, if you expect to slap on a turbocharger, and call it a day, well then stay away from the higher compression motors all together. A higher compression motor demands slightly more TLC than a lower compression motor. But oh, the rewards are plenty.
Bottom line...a higher compression motor, pound for pound, will make more power, than a low compression motor. This works along the same lines as naturally aspirated Honda motors. You never see an NA enthusiasts spouting off about low compression do you? No, one of the keys to NA performance is high compression. So, why should it be any differnt for turbocharged applications? Of course, the routes to high compression are different (NA uses lightweight rods and pistons, that a turbocharged application would simply tear to shreds), but the end goal is the same.

midrange · Post by **midrange** » August 4th, 2007, 6:13 am

i may start a new thread for this one.. BUT... I just recently got word from someone that there is another motor that is exactly like the stock gs motor which comes turbo'd already. He said its now available from Japan??? i think he said, and its just drops on with out major mods.

He basically said its like the motor you got in there (gs motor) only turboed and is around 300hp. Obviously good internals and what not.

Has anyone heard of this??? SOrry to bump in, but if its no rumour, this could be a good way to go for you.

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » August 4th, 2007, 1:59 pm

ScooterBovine wrote:If you already have a KLZE, and want to turbo it, you'd want to upgrade the motor's internals anyways. So... While you are in there, replace the rings and seals and all that along with adding in performance parts. So the money you WOULD be spending on a NEW motor would instead be spent on upgrading and fixing your current motor that you ALREADY know is a KLZE. Also, contrary to popular belief, turboing a higher compression motor can actually yield higher gains, you just have to be ALOT more careful about the tuning process. Reference this link for more details:

http://www.mx-3.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=41406

Here is an exerpt:
Why should I consider a higher compression motor, while making my decision of what motor will suit my needs?
Different from a low compression motor, a higher compression motor will not give you a large margin of error, when tuning. As stated before, if you expect to slap on a turbocharger, and call it a day, well then stay away from the higher compression motors all together. A higher compression motor demands slightly more TLC than a lower compression motor. But oh, the rewards are plenty.
Bottom line...a higher compression motor, pound for pound, will make more power, than a low compression motor. This works along the same lines as naturally aspirated Honda motors. You never see an NA enthusiasts spouting off about low compression do you? No, one of the keys to NA performance is high compression. So, why should it be any differnt for turbocharged applications? Of course, the routes to high compression are different (NA uses lightweight rods and pistons, that a turbocharged application would simply tear to shreds), but the end goal is the same.

I agree. but it all comes down to what the person wants.

Well, my idea would be, since you have a KLZE and oyu want to replace it, get a KLDE, it has lower compression and a better valvetrain. Swap over the ZE head since it flows better, but move the valve train over. Use the ZE IM since it flows better. And i guess if you want you can move the higher-compression pistons over from the ZE if you want to use those. Now, you could say if your taking the motors apart (and maybe swapping pistons) that you might as well get better pistons and rods for a turbo setup, but that's extra money, and it depends on what you want to spend for your project and what you want for an outcome. Just cause it's suggested doesn't mean you have to do it, especially if you can't afford to.

midrange wrote:i may start a new thread for this one.. BUT... I just recently got word from someone that there is another motor that is exactly like the stock gs motor which comes turbo'd already. He said its now available from Japan??? i think he said, and its just drops on with out major mods.

He basically said its like the motor you got in there (gs motor) only turboed and is around 300hp. Obviously good internals and what not.

Has anyone heard of this??? SOrry to bump in, but if its no rumour, this could be a good way to go for you.

hmm, no

There's the BPT GTR from Japan, turbo 1.8 that makes 210hp stock in Japan, but that's for the RS

There the KJ-ZEM, that's a miller-cycle supercharged 2.3L V6. Makes 210hp, but there's alot of complexity with it and it may not even fit being a 90* V6 and not 60* like ours, and it's designed for economy, not performance.

There is no factory turbo K-series motor that anyone is aware of.

mx3biotch · Post by **mx3biotch** » August 4th, 2007, 9:35 pm

Hey guys would a rebuild kit like this work?
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/

someone told the me the ross forged pistons in this kit would give me 9.1:1 compression... if i dont boost would i feel much of a difference with a lower compression... ?

Juans_93_MX3 · Post by **Juans_93_MX3** » August 5th, 2007, 9:31 pm

KLZE turboed > KLDE turboed
Stock internals or not
You gotta make sure to change the valve train on the KLZE

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » August 5th, 2007, 11:29 pm

ok scratch everything everyone said 1st and read Corky bells Maximum boost then come back it, its going to help you more in the long run, these guys know what there talking about and what needs to be done and how to build a proper setup. But if your still a noob when it comes to this then a little time and education will go a long way in helping you build a reliable setup, granted there are plenty of turbo setups listed as to what parts they used and what they did, you can just copy someone elses setup but will you understand why they chose the parts they did?

solo_ryder · Post by **solo_ryder** » August 6th, 2007, 11:10 pm

Talk to me on msn, I will help you make up your mind!

mx3biotch · Post by **mx3biotch** » August 6th, 2007, 11:37 pm

lol, okay.

I have come to one conclusion... I am keeping my car, lol, a friend drove it yesterday and when i was behind the car all i thought was, damn, if someone else owned it I would regret selling that car sooooo bad! It's a hot little car!!

So, I am going to do a compression test in the next day or so, and see if my rings are gone or not, I did a compression test last summer when i gave it a tune up and all six cylinders fired at 170 but number 3 fired at 160. We'll see what it does this time around.

I'm not going to bother rebuilding, so I'll just get a new engine from jdmsource.ca and use my current intake manifold and salvage my kl31 cams from it? Unless anyone's selling a KLZE with upgraded internals

From there I'm still not sure where to go....