KLZE or KLDE? I been researching for a while, need more advi

Juans_93_MX3 · Post by **Juans_93_MX3** » October 28th, 2005, 7:49 pm

COMPARING PRICES:
I have heard and seen KLZE's with ECU, water pump, ect going for $1300 plus about $200 for shipping. So in total, $1500 for a KLZE.
Is there a place where I can I find a better deal without getting ripped off?

How about a KLDE? If I was to pay $500 for a KLDE with ECU, water pump, ect, how much engine mileage should I be expecting? 60k miles? 90k miles?
$500 is the average price right?
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I know a MX3 with a KLZE will run low 14s and a KLDE in a MX3 will run low 15s at the 1/4mile.
I know a KLZE has 40hp extra.
My real concern here is, what engine would have more power with a turbo?
Check this out:
KLZE's max boost is 6 PSI on stock internals
KLZE's have 10.0:1 Compression
KLZE's have 200hp/160ft torque
A KLZE can bring a MX3 to the mid/low 14s at the 1/4mile
KLDE's have 9.2:1 Compression
KLDE's have 160hp/160 ft torque
A KLDE can bring a MX3 to the low 15s at the 1/4mile
KLDE's max boost is 14PSI on stock internals
==================================================

A KLZE (10.0:1 static CR) boosting 6psi
6psi/14.7psi = .40
.40 + 1 = 1.40
1.40 x 10 = 14 effective CR

A KLDE at 8PSI
.54
.54 + 1 = 1.54
1.54 x 9.2 = 14.16

A KLDE at 10 PSI
.68
.68 + 1 = 1.68
1.68 x 9.2 = 15.45

A KLDE at 12 PSI
.81
.81 + 1 = 1.81
1.81 x 9.2 = 16.65

A KLDE at 14 PSI
.95
.95 + 1 = 1.95
1.95 x 9.2 = 17.94

Off of a turbo, a KLDE will benfit more from the boost at 14PSI. The real question I got is, which engine would have more overall power? Infact, would there be such a big difference on a KLZE at 6PSI vs. a KLDE at 14PSI?
A KLDE on stock internals can take 14PSI right? Isnt that how much Rebel2k4 was running at on his stock internals?

More questions to come...

lakersfan1 · Post by **lakersfan1** » October 28th, 2005, 8:47 pm

A KLDE can get into the high 14's on a Probe, which is 300 lbs hevier than an MX3. There's no reason a good driver on a KLDE MX3 shouldn't be able to do mid 14's.

And you should be able to find a KLZE cheaper than that. Sun's Engines in Arizona should be about $800, and it's only a state away, so you could make a day trip to personally pick it out, and save the $200 shipping. Stick it in your hatch, and drive it back.

Juans_93_MX3 · Post by **Juans_93_MX3** » October 28th, 2005, 10:25 pm

lakersfan1 wrote:A KLDE can get into the high 14's on a Probe, which is 300 lbs hevier than an MX3. There's no reason a good driver on a KLDE MX3 shouldn't be able to do mid 14's.

And you should be able to find a KLZE cheaper than that. Sun's Engines in Arizona should be about $800, and it's only a state away, so you could make a day trip to personally pick it out, and save the $200 shipping. Stick it in your hatch, and drive it back.

Thats good to know they are $800
As for a KLDE MX3 hitting mid 14's... you sure about that?
I have heard high 14s or low 15s on a MX3 but mostly low 15s

This site http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/ ... times.html
says,
1990 Ford Probe LX 8.2 16.2
1992 Ford Probe GT 7.9 16.0
1993 Ford Probe GT 7.5 15.8
1994 Ford Probe GT 7.5 15.7

Reaver19 · Post by **Reaver19** » October 29th, 2005, 8:16 pm

I'm still waiting to see if a KLDE with stock internals can really handle 14 PSI, that sounds dangerously high. Anybody know the answer to this?

Juans_93_MX3 · Post by **Juans_93_MX3** » October 30th, 2005, 12:51 am

I think I will go for a KLZE instead.
It is only $300 more than a KLDE

BUT, I got 2 questions though
Do these KLZEs have mileage on them already, like, have they been used before?
As for the place in Arizona, do the KLZE engines there come with water pump, ECU, distributer, ect?

Oh yeah, about KLDE's running 14PSI off of a turbo
I am basing that off of Rebel2k4 because he ran 14PSI. I am not 100% sure though because he is at high altitude...
Its ether 10PSI or 14PSI.

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » October 30th, 2005, 12:57 am

FWIW, If it were me, when it's decided whether it's a ZE or DE I would then go for a wideband O2's accompanied with a good engine management system. I think you'll find that in this way you'll be able to maximize the max performance of either engine. If after that you find that you still want to boost you can incorporate the turbo into your engine management system like a MegaSquirt. I recommend that you spend a fair bit of time on Probetalk's BB. THere you'll find gobs of info relating to DE's and ZE's whether they have been Turbo'd or Supercharged.
*John*

Juans_93_MX3 · Post by **Juans_93_MX3** » November 1st, 2005, 11:50 pm

anyone with any type of suggestions?

vozaday2000 · Post by **vozaday2000** » November 2nd, 2005, 8:58 am

go with the ze. you can run a bit more boost than 7 psi on a PROPERLY TUNED ze. psi only leaves you a error margin in the tuning aspect. there is a readup on the v6 faq, you should look into it, lots of good info. pound for pound the ze is better due to the pistons, cams and intake manifold, and of course better with boost do to the high comp pistons. notice i said with not for boost, that goes to the tuning aspect again.

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » November 2nd, 2005, 2:35 pm

Juans_93_MX3 wrote:As for a KLDE MX3 hitting mid 14's... you sure about that?
I have heard high 14s or low 15s on a MX3 but mostly low 15s

Definitely, cause I raced against one...14.6 was his time.

Juans_93_MX3 · Post by **Juans_93_MX3** » November 2nd, 2005, 6:53 pm

Nd4SpdSe wrote:
Juans_93_MX3 wrote:As for a KLDE MX3 hitting mid 14's... you sure about that?
I have heard high 14s or low 15s on a MX3 but mostly low 15s
Definitely, cause I raced against one...14.6 was his time.

Wow, I am surprised

How much mileage should a KLDE have for $500?

Is the extra 40hp on the KLZE really worth a extra $300-$400?

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » November 2nd, 2005, 7:04 pm

Depends on the condition, the downfall with KLDE's is milleage. KLZE's will typically have half the milleage. As for $/hp, it's worth it. If you wanna get the extra hp, you'll pay equally for a N20 system, and that's not streetable, more expensive in the long run, as well as sacrificing reliability. Also take in effect the ECU/VAF required, on a KLDE, you will need both ECU and VAF, and for what i've heard, are typically $200 each, while for a KLZE, all you need is the ECU, which is about $250, so look into that when pricing around for what you'll need.

Juans_93_MX3 · Post by **Juans_93_MX3** » November 2nd, 2005, 11:33 pm

So whats the story with KLZEs? I remember there was a FAQ on them one time but I cant find it no-more
So I see these engines are all ready used. They come with mileage but how much mileage should a KLZE have?
Other than the Mazda 626, what other cars do they come from?
Why are these engines being pulled out of Mazda 626s if they have low mileage?

vozaday2000 · Post by **vozaday2000** » November 3rd, 2005, 12:07 am

the KLZE comes from jspec mx6's enus(sp?) 800(millenia), and 626's. they are being pulled out of the cars with relatively low mileage because of japanese smog laws. they generally have 30-50,000 miles or 50-80,000 km's.

Nd4SpdSe · Post by **Nd4SpdSe** » November 3rd, 2005, 3:04 pm

That and they are a very small country, they don't do the same high-millage driving that we north americains do.

93_mx3_gs · Post by **93_mx3_gs** » November 8th, 2005, 5:46 pm

Juans_93_MX3 wrote:
Nd4SpdSe wrote:
Juans_93_MX3 wrote:As for a KLDE MX3 hitting mid 14's... you sure about that?
I have heard high 14s or low 15s on a MX3 but mostly low 15s
Definitely, cause I raced against one...14.6 was his time.
Wow, I am surprised

How much mileage should a KLDE have for $500?

Is the extra 40hp on the KLZE really worth a extra $300-$400?

300 - 400 bucks is cheap for another 40 HP. You can barely get 20 maybe out of a full hi perf. exhaust system. When I had my 383 stroker camaro I purchased a set of 500 dollar headers and that gave me 30 @ the crank and with the 3" hi flo cat and straight pipes I pushed 40 HP out of that 8 for 800 in total. So yeah, 300 - 400 bucks is cheap for an extra 40 hp. Lets see you buy something you can bolt on that offers 40 HP for under 400 bucks. Won't happen heh.