Proformance of Halogen projectors.

[MX3-Freak]

JDM or anyone else well versed in lighting- would retrofitting Hella 90 mm halogen projectors yeild decent proformance gains? I'm planning here, and I can't find a difinative answer on that. Also, would an HID projector really be worth the extra $200+ over the halogens.

[Taras]

First of all, what are you retrofitting a projector into?

That will determine what option you have.

A Hella 90mm projector will yield more than good results. I promise you that you will be really impressed. And you have a choice of H9 or H7, well may be even D2S one, but they are really expensive. Go through This page, you will find a lot of useful info on 90mm options, including a how-to retrofit a D2S HID capsule into an H9 low beam unit.

How, to HID.
"Also, would an HID projector really be worth the extra $200+ over the halogens."

What HID projector are you referring to? Hella 90mm D2S ones or OEM HID from Audi, BMW, etc.

If you are referring to Hella 90mm HID projectors, then yes they are awesome, fully legal and very expensive. As stated earlier, you can fit HID into H9 based units for cheaper. Just need ballasts and D2S capsules.

If you are talking about OEM HID projectors from cars like BMW or Audi. Then you need to see how much space you have, do you care for bi-xenon, do you care for colour, do you care for actual performance, lighr spread, beam pattern. They do vary as well, and quite a bit.

As far as HID go, if you have the money and patience and skills, then go for HID, it's three times brighter, comparitavely, though. With H9 Hella 90mm units running through a proper relayed harness, you will get pretty close to brightness of HID. 3200lm vs. ~2200lm, not too bad.

Give more specific details and your preferences and we will be able to give you more specific answers.

[MX3-Freak]

Ok thank you for that info. Sorry I did not clarify more. You were correct, I was comparing the Hella 90 H9 and DS2 projectors. I actually did go to that link before (have it boook marked), but thank you anyhow.

About Bi-Xeneon, I wold love to have those. But one unit it more then all 4 H9 projectors.

I'm really after proformance, beam pattern, and look of the car. Color really isn't my worry on this.


On last question; you said, "As far as HID go, if you have the money and patience and skills, then go for HID, it's three times brighter, comparitavely, though. " IS there a reason I'm un aware that retro fitting HID projectors would be a great deal more dificult then the H9?

Thanks,
Frank

PS. I forgot your first quiestion. I'm retrofitting nito the OEM Mx-3 headlight housing

[Taras]

First thing first:

What are you using for a front cover if any at all?
- See, with Hella 90mm projectors you do not really need a front cover, because they are weather sealed.

Do you want to have a high beam?
- If you plan to use existing housing, you've got a few challanges, as it will be very hard to fit both low and high beam beside each other in the existing housing. Unless you basically want to ramake the whole thing. It's doable though.

Originally posted by MX3-Freak:

About Bi-Xeneon, I wold love to have those. But one unit it more then all 4 H9 projectors.

That is if you refer to Hella 90mm Bi-Xenon unit. There are still all of the OEM Bi-Xenons out there. Hella(Mercedeses, A6, Porsche, E65), Bosch(E46, PassatW8), Valeo(Cayenne, A4 2004+, Saab?), and the ones from Acura TL 2004+. Also, there is an aftermarket Valeo Bi-Xenon that is out there, but good luck finding any info on it. I think it is sealed as well and as pricey too. Anyway, you want bi-xenon get one off junkyard OEM car, unless money are no object.

Originally posted by MX3-Freak:
I'm really after proformance, beam pattern, and look of the car. Color really isn't my worry on this.

Well colour is all the same anyway OEM D2S is rated at 4100 Kelvin Colour Temp. (unless it is older capsule) Anything higher and you just got blind (meaning, too dim and too blue).

Finally, you are one of the few people on this board that care about if they are going to be able to see at night with so desired projectors.

Originally posted by MX3-Freak:
IS there a reason I'm un aware that retro fitting HID projectors would be a great deal more dificult then the H9?

Not really. Hella H9 and Hella D2S are the same dimentionally and externally. (Pssst. That is why if you want 90mm units in HID, get H9's and fit your own D2S). But, if you are retrofitting OEM HID projectors, then it is a whole different game. Although OEM, could be even easier, depending on your approach. But you have to protect them well, because they are not weather sealed.

[MX3-Freak]

About fitting 2 hella 90mm projectors into the housing, would it be possible to fiberglass the OEM outer lense, but add just enough to the back edge of the lense to be flush with the out side of the projector? You could theoretically cut holes in this mold where the projectors are, and have an acura head light look.

You wouldn't by chance have a link to the dimenchions of the hellas so I could compare it to the housing and see what exactly I'm dealing with.

(Pssst. That is why if you want 90mm units in HID, get H9's and fit your own D2S)

Is the a great deal of tampering with the fitment of the lights themselves when doing this, because Id rather not do extensive surgery on such high priced bulbs/projector units. - nevermind, I read the section on doing it; might consider this.

Finally, do you have any recomendations on OEM Bi-Xenons that are small enough to fit in the mx housing? I'll trying calling some junk yards and getting their prices on some of the OEM ones so I can get a good feel for prices.

Thanks for the help,
Frank

[Taras]

Here you can find DIMENSIONS

If I would do a dual Hella 90mm module set-up, I would do similar to what you have described, you have to cut off the most outer little area to give more space. May be similar to Focus setup by Hella. Like This , but not like This .

I hope that you see what I am trying to represent. With Acura type round holes it will look like two parallel holes/tubes been stuck trough the headlight. with Hella Focus style setup it is a bit better looking. So here is what I would do. I would get a Focus Projector kit and see if I can adapt it to Mx-3 headlights. Something like This

May for all those crazies that are trying to stick Civic projectors in their rides, this will give them an idea. You don't have to worry about scratching the clear outer lens fiting those Civic's in. Although do not trust me, I have not measured the dimensions, so I am not 100% sure. But if you are going to cut and fiberglass, you got a good start, plus, may be those hi beams from those Focus light may be useful. The low beams I would definitely trade for Hella 90mm's. But then again, as we speak, someone is trying to make the same set-up I speak of. No guarantees though.

As far as OEM Bi-Xenons, the smallest will depend on what measurement you refer to. Hella's are the biggest that I know, but alone, they do fit. Bosch from E46 BMW are smaller. NOt sure of Valeo's, too rare yet.

Good luck.

[Taras]

Hey, here is a decent price, considering you get all four projectors with it. That cost you 50-100 for just the cover. Not too bad.
Here

Compared to aftermarket knockoffs you also get a tighter fit between those projectors with Hella, which could be very important, just compare the pictures. Plus, you will not have to fabricate adjuster brackets, adjuster screws and connectors. Seem good, but they are not new. You would still need to fabricate the whole set up mounting to the car, but that is easy.

Anyway, just one of the options there to consider. That is if you want to do something different.

<small>[ May 26, 2004, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: JDM ]</small>

[thebox]

I'm actually going to start on this very project in about a week! I got my 2 Hella 90mm H9 projectors a couple of weeks ago, and my Hella H9 high beam units should be getting to me this week. I'm happy! Once I get some money i will certainly have to consider going HID. The best part is the deal i got on these things!! A friend of mine got me all 4 H9 units for $120 (usd) How could i pass it up? All I will need is time to do it!

edit: the high beam H9 units came today! i will post pics of all 4 units on my cardomain site sometime in the next 2 days...as if those who care haven't seen them before... oh well they look awesome so i'm puttin pics up!

<small>[ May 28, 2004, 03:59 AM: Message edited by: thebox ]</small>

[thebox]

For anyone interested I put pics of all 4 of my Hella units on my cardomain site, page 2. Take a look!

[Taras]

THose are very nice. Waiting to see your pictures of the project. Good luck with it. You should also post pictures of the beam pattern for low beams at least at 25' distance on the wall, so people know what to look for in a decent projector output. NOt all of them made equal.

[MX3-Freak]

Well, I've been weighing over what you've said about fitment for the past few days, and I think something like this would look best, and still fit on the mx: <img src="http://atomic.digitalcreation.net/Graph ... C02041.JPG" alt=" - " />

However, I was thinknig instead of leaving it exposed like this, paint the inside using high-temp matching as close as possible to body color, and then covering it with a clear outer lense. And I think your right JDM, the ford focus light might almost match the mx is you cut away the part not indented.

Also, would it be possilbe/worth using a high temp crome paint on the projector housing (hella 90mm only)? I think I could achieve a look similar to this, with Bi-Xenon, or the 2 projectors in the stock housing:
<img src="http://www2.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/rx8/im ... ges_25.jpg" alt=" - " />

Just give me your opinions how realistic these ideas would be. Also, remember I have to picture these in my head...photoshop doesn't like my computer for some reason.

<small>[ May 30, 2004, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: MX3-Freak ]</small>

[johnnyb]

if you do order the focus projectors can you please take down the dimensions for me? I am going to buy the focus conversion after I get back from england in august and I was having a few concerns with them as nobody I talk to can give me dimensions. Just from looking at a picture, I'd say you'd have to cut the inner most point off, adjust the fender side so its a little shorter and more rounded and make them in general a little shorter. I was thinking about the civic conversion but I figured this way I only have to modify the housing, not the housing & lense. For about a week now while I'm at work I look at every headlight of every car that passes me and try and picture in my head if they might fit. JDM, do you think a lexus IS300 headlight would fit with a little modification?

[Taras]

Originally posted by johnnyb:
JDM, do you think a lexus IS300 headlight would fit with a little modification?

Hey Jonny,

I think with IS300's you will have a problem with a corner blinker that they have. Plus they are only reflector HID, these days you could do much better.

[Taras]

Originally posted by MX3-Freak:
Well, I've been weighing over what you've said about fitment for the past few days, and I think something like this would look best, and still fit on the mx. However, I was thinknig instead of leaving it exposed like this, paint the inside using high-temp matching as close as possible to body color, and then covering it with a clear outer lense. And I think your right JDM, the ford focus light might almost match the mx is you cut away the part not indented.

Also, would it be possilbe/worth using a high temp crome paint on the projector housing (hella 90mm only)? I think I could achieve a look similar to this, with Bi-Xenon, or the 2 projectors in the stock housing. Just give me your opinions how realistic these ideas would be. Also, remember I have to picture these in my head...photoshop doesn't like my computer for some reason.

I think you are talking about two different things. You need to decide whether you are going to go with a light that has a clear outer lens just like in Rx8 or you would want something like Focus aftermarket lights have with projector exposed. If that case you can only use Hella 90mm's as they are weather-proof. Still think that actual Hella Ford Focus lights are better, besides that it has Hella 90mm's that are hugely superior to whatever the knock-offs may come with, but because the projectors sit closer together and geberally lower. That will be a better fit into our lights. I poseted comaprison pictures a few posts back.

As far as achieveing the look of Rx-8, yes you can do that too. The clear front lens is a challange I would say. Use Hi-temp paint and pre-bake it before final install to get rid of paint fumes.

<small>[ May 30, 2004, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: JDM ]</small>

[Taras]

Originally posted by johnnyb:
if you do order the focus projectors can you please take down the dimensions for me? I am going to buy the focus conversion after I get back from england in august and I was having a few concerns with them as nobody I talk to can give me dimensions.

Some dimensions are here: Link, too bad it is only rough ones and for the projectors themselves. Just for a reference here are Mx-3 housing (w/o front lens) dimensions:
Height (at the highest point): 5 3/8"
Width: 15 1/8"
Depth (at the halogen bulb axis, bottom measurement): 6 3/4"

May be your friendly Ford dealer be able to get dimensions for you, they do sell them.

<small>[ May 30, 2004, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: JDM ]</small>