JUST A SURVEY:

BATTOSAI · Post by **BATTOSAI** » March 13th, 2003, 3:37 pm

Hi Mx-ers, As you may now, I´m currently developing my turbocharged K8, and as my mind is always running, I´m already thinking on what can be the next step on the performance chasing. Here are my two ways to follow:FIRST WAY: Swap K8 to Kl:
I won´t have problems about adapting my piping on this engine, as everything I did is bolt-on parts, so for sure I can swap all my work on the new platform. So what seems to be the matter? I doubt I can insert a t3/t4 on my turbo location and still keep my configuration as it is. May be it will be choked by the downpipe diameter, but I can´t go any bigger without droping my Y-pipe to the floor. The things to purchase would be bigger injectors, the Kl engine and it´s Vaf-ecu combo. As I would have my K8 still running ( I hope) I could work on it to strengthen the rod and piston compound. SECOND WAY: WORK ON THE K8
Swaping seems to have more performance potential than this option, but getting rid of a flawless working engine annoyes me a little. If 1.6 hondas, and Mazdas Bpt´s can have really big power (if properly tuned) Why couldn´t I do the same to my K8? I can throw some reinforced rods on it, good turbo pistons inside the cylinders, copper gaskets, and a good clutch and blow it at one full bar at least! (14,7 psi). It would be also a naughty beast to ride!Well, some good opinions would be appreciate!!

VizualXTC · Post by **VizualXTC** » March 13th, 2003, 3:54 pm

I personally like both ideas. I would go with the swap myself. I like the power potential of the 2.5L engine, but I think a monster 1.8 would turn a few heads also.

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » March 13th, 2003, 4:10 pm

The advantage a built 1.8L has is that you can run really high RPM's and make tons of power without having the torque that makes hipo FWD cars useless. I think you should get your turbo K8 running and see how you like that, then decide if you need more power from there. I know a 200bhp MX-3 is quite a handful, and I've definitely modified my plans for the future of the car since I dropped in the KLZE. 300bhp is just silly in a FWD street, IMO.

Sean Mandell · Post by **Sean Mandell** » March 13th, 2003, 4:42 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by David Coleman:
The advantage a built 1.8L has is that you can run really high RPM's and make tons of power without having the torque that makes hipo FWD cars useless. I think you should get your turbo K8 running and see how you like that, then decide if you need more power from there. I know a 200bhp MX-3 is quite a handful, and I've definitely modified my plans for the future of the car since I dropped in the KLZE. 300bhp is just silly in a FWD street, IMO. <hr></blockquote>So Dave, for usable high rpm power do you think a Turbo k8 is better than the klze modified?

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » March 13th, 2003, 7:28 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by nvrsrndr:
So Dave, for usable high rpm power do you think a Turbo k8 is better than the klze modified?<hr></blockquote>For a street driven MX-3...yes.

Sean Mandell · Post by **Sean Mandell** » March 13th, 2003, 9:24 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by David Coleman:
For a street driven MX-3...yes.<hr></blockquote>do you regret not turboing your old done up k8?
I kind of sense that you are not just a straight line racer. if i down shift at high rpms going into a turn i wouldnt want to throw myself into the wall. this is my only concern about adding almost 50% more torque on a light fwd car.

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » March 14th, 2003, 1:16 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by nvrsrndr:
do you regret not turboing your old done up k8?<hr></blockquote>Not particularly. I've been tearing down my old K8 block this week. The lower girdle/bearing main section is actually drying out in the driveway now. The block on those things are a bit overbuilt for a 130bhp 1.8L....like it could withstand 5 times that easily. With the rod ratio so high that Smokey Yunick would die for, you're going to have very little side loading, so you can get away with more horsepower on a K8 than you could with a motor with the same size rods but a lower rod ratio. I'm not convinced a K8 stock bottom end can't take 1 bar in light of that fact. Somebody is just going to have to pop one and see. The Millenia S 280cc/min injector should provide a good bit of fuel for a boosted K8, though the 13B-REW 850cc/min drop in injectors might be a bit much... <blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by nvrsrndr:
I kind of sense that you are not just a straight line racer. if i down shift at high rpms going into a turn i wouldnt want to throw myself into the wall. this is my only concern about adding almost 50% more torque on a light fwd car.<hr></blockquote>I know my drive to the grocery store or work isn't just a straight line, is yours? My goal is to have a fun street car, without compromising drivability. I know now I have to take it easy in 1st and 2nd with my 3 year old clutch and 4.111 final drive with the KLZE to avoid wheelspin on the street. I don't think I'd want too much more power than that unless I did some serious modifications to aid traction [READ: LSD, Konis, coilovers, metal suspension bushings, rollcage, etc]I like the throttle response and torque curve of a normally aspirated 2.5L. I'm thinking more and more about going with a normally aspirated KL instead of boosting it. A proper turbo setup on a KL will cost upwards of 5k [at least the way I'd do it], and that doesn't include building the bottom end or any headwork. For a couple grand I could have a fun 200whp KLZE with great throttle response, reliable as stock, and run 13's without the hassle of constantly checking EGT's, worrying about oil leaks, not getting traction after 4k in any gear, etc. Just my 2 cents...

BATTOSAI · Post by **BATTOSAI** » March 14th, 2003, 4:11 pm

Well, I think I have already taken a decision:
I´ll beef up my K8!
I have started my search for performance parts, and for now I´m checking about strengthened rods, but reading what David has written above I hope I doesn´t have to. I also thought that the rods looked good, but as everyone is saying " It will only can handle as much as 8 psi" I started to doubt about it (I wonder if many of those guys have ever thrown an eye on a K8 rod and crankshaft) They have a really short stroke, which is good for great charges downward. I have searched and for the moment Brian Pauter, from Pauter rods has told me that a set of six rods for the K8 would cost 1080$, and that he needs a sample and about 6 weeks in order to manufacture them. Price doesn´t look too steep, but if I can avoid to spend them, 1000 bucks are 1000 bucks!!
What I will replace for sure are the pistons and rod bearings. I will look for pistons that must keep stock compression , and have upgraded rings for turbo pressures ( With the steel reinforcement, hope you can understand what I mean) The rod bearings would be replaced just for safety, as I checked my oil pump release spring and it marked 10 mm below specs!! I replaced it and shimmed it 7 mm just to get rid of lack of oil pressure ( I have the theory that the HLA´s problems and cam gear´s failure may be achieved to this, as the fatidic 6th cylinder rod bearing death(which is a fact)) I suggest everybody to unbolt their oil pan, ( after draining the oil that´s for sure), unbolt the golden cover and the oil pump sump, and unbolt the 10mm allen bolt and throw an eye on it´s spring length. You can found it´s exact size in the online shop manual, I think that it was 46,something, but better look up for it.
More to come in the next future!
Regarding at my turbo system, I have finished all my intercooler piping and working to finish the downpipe tubing, but ran out of gas in my welding unit! so nothing else until next week. Wish I finish everything on two weeks as much ( I will change pistons after testing it a little, so that will be a good check out for everything after running boosted)

BATTOSAI · Post by **BATTOSAI** » March 14th, 2003, 4:32 pm

David, you say you´re dissasembling your old K8. Did you see if it has oil squirters below the pistons? I mean those little sprays that throw oil to the opposite face where the piston gets smacked! I have read that the Kl has them, but no info about the K8. I hope you tell me that I´m right and we have them, as it will be a good thing for a turbo engine!

Sean Mandell · Post by **Sean Mandell** » March 14th, 2003, 6:11 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by David Coleman:
I know my drive to the grocery store or work isn't just a straight line, is yours? My goal is to have a fun street car, without compromising drivability. I know now I have to take it easy in 1st and 2nd with my 3 year old clutch and 4.111 final drive with the KLZE to avoid wheelspin on the street. I don't think I'd want too much more power than that unless I did some serious modifications to aid traction [READ: LSD, Konis, coilovers, metal suspension bushings, rollcage, etc]<hr></blockquote>I ment that you want more out of your car then just power. I have always stated that 200+ hp on a fwd car is more then enough where drivability is concerned. I don't care about 1/4 mile times but what i do want is a great handling street car with enough power to devour honda cars when needed. I definatly don't want a car that I can't push to redline because of wheel hop. BTW I thought u were running an act clutch with ur klze.

aaronthehic · Post by **aaronthehic** » March 14th, 2003, 7:59 pm

I still stand by the torque of the 2.5. thats what stood out the most when I first did the swap. you can plant it at 2-3k and it still gets up and goes but, being origional is something too and I would rather see a turbo k8 than another ze swap. IMOIt's all about the Mustangs, when one of thoes opec sponsored pig pulls up and you spank the pants off him it doesn't get any better

[ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: aaron the hic ]

Sean Mandell · Post by **Sean Mandell** » March 14th, 2003, 11:14 pm

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by aaron the hic:
It's all about the Mustangs, when one of thoes opec sponsored pig pulls up and you spank the pants off him it doesn't get any better [ March 14, 2003: Message edited by: aaron the hic ]<hr></blockquote>I am sorry but a hooked up stang will demolish just about anything. I could see u smoking stock one cause the hp : weight is in your favour but not a supercharged one.

quinn_seipp · Post by **quinn_seipp** » March 19th, 2003, 6:58 pm

mustangs suck :p

mattster · Post by **mattster** » March 25th, 2003, 3:16 am

ok enough about mustangs. i want to hear more about the turbo project! you should keep everyone updated with some pics. i know that there are alot of people interested in such a project.

BATTOSAI · Post by **BATTOSAI** » March 25th, 2003, 9:26 am

Hey Mattster!
I already have the pictures posted! They are in the post " Battosai turbo piping"
I must update pictures, as I have finished the downpipe, and a few things more. hope I can post them this week!!

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