Clutch switch bypass switch

[Inodoro Pereyra]

True, but what's the point?

Look at it this way. Both the neutral switch and the clutch switch ground a brown/yellow wire when active. These two brown/yellow wires are connected to each other, therefore both switches ground the same pin on the ECU, essentially bypassing one when the other is activated. So the switch, in this case, is completely redundant. The ECU can't tell the difference. It only cares that the gears aren't engaged, not how they got that way.

Plus, like I said, the clutch switch in that diagram has nothing to do with starting the car. It is pointless to bypass it. You must bypass the starter interlock switch, which is a totally different circuit. That is why I believe a relay is absolutely necessary, especially because of the current that the starter interlock switch handles (40A, judging by the wire gauge used).

There's NO SUCH THING as a separate "starter interlock switch"!!!
The proper name of the clutch switch is "starter/clutch interlock switch".
The wire that in the diagram is interconnecting the clutch and neutral switches HAS TO BE A MISTAKE, because if that wire existed you could start the car in neutral without depressing the clutch, which we all know DOESN'T HAPPEN.

So, yeah, the ECU CAN tell the difference, because the neutral switch goes to the ECU, while the starter/clutch interlock switch goes to the cruise control module.

[Ryan]

I never expected this to be this hard, and especially not 7 pages.

[_-Night-Shade-_]

I never expected this to be this hard, and especially not 7 pages.

That's because you wanna go all fancy and have a switch instead of just bypassing the clutch and being careful with the gear shifter.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

I never expected this to be this hard, and especially not 7 pages.

It's not hard. It's just a matter of picking up a multimeter and testing the wires to see if that connection between both switches exists. If it does exist, then we're missing something. If it's just a drawing mistake, the switch connected as ND suggested will work perfectly.
If I had an MX-3, I'd have tested it already. I will probably test it tomorrow in my MX-6.

[Nd4SpdSe]

At this point, unless we find proof otherwise, PoisonDrop is probably right and thinking back I'm pretty sure he is.

Inodoro, in my diagrams, the circuits I'm using in them are pulled from Mitchell for the Mazda Mx-3. They aren't made up. It didn't dawn on me until I found them, but Mitchell lists both a clutch and a starter interlock switch. From looking at the diagram, we see that it wouldn't of made sence that the clutch switch would stop the car from starting, but the interlock does. I literally was about to call Poison crazy, until I actually found that interlock switch in the Mx-3 diagrams.



Pulled from the Mx-3 diagrams:

[PoisonDrop]

Inodoro, in my diagrams, the circuits I'm using in them are pulled from Mitchell for the Mazda Mx-3. They aren't made up. It didn't dawn on me until I found them, but Mitchell lists both a clutch and a starter interlock switch. From looking at the diagram, we see that it wouldn't of made sence that the clutch switch would stop the car from starting, but the interlock does. I literally was about to call Poison crazy, until I actually found that interlock switch in the Mx-3 diagrams.

You are absolutely correct.

See? I told you the online diagrams are crappy.

Think about it. The cruise control needs to be cancelled if you press the clutch (clutch switch) OR if you pull the car out of gear into neutral (neutral switch). I'm pretty sure that's all those switches do. Two different circumstances, but both switches have the same effect.

I never expected this to be this hard, and especially not 7 pages.

It's only 7 pages because we are all MX-3 geniuses here...there's bound to be some banter. All in good fun, though!

[PoisonDrop]

BTW, in my opinion, this is the one...

[Nd4SpdSe]

[Think about it. The cruise control needs to be cancelled if you press the clutch (clutch switch) OR if you pull the car out of gear into neutral (neutral switch). I'm pretty sure that's all those switches do. Two different circumstances, but both switches have the same effect.

True, but ironicly my Mx-3 I could actually shift while in cruise, which is nice if you have to downshift when in cruise. It was a pet peve that I couldn't do with the truck.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Ok gentlemen, end of discussion.

There are 2 switches being actuated by the clutch pedal: one under it, and one on top of it.
The switch under the pedal is the starter/clutch interlock switch. That switch is supposed to be in parallel with the neutral switch, as per the wiring diagrams.
Now, I have gone through all the car's wiring diagrams with a fine comb, and could not find that clutch second switch anywhere.

As I said before, my car is a '96 MX-6. I have compared its wiring diagrams with the ones for the MX-3, and the Protege, and, at least for the switches we're talking about, they're identical.

So after a short while messing with my car and a multimeter, here's what I can tell, without a doubt:

The switch on top of the clutch pedal has NOTHING TO DO with starting the car. I have disconnected this switch, and the car starts without a problem, either with the transmission in neutral, or with the transmission in gear.

Now, here's something else we've all been wrong about: THE NEUTRAL SWITCH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STARTING THE CAR.
That's right. If you try to start the car with the tranny in gear, it will start, as long as you're depressing the clutch pedal.

The switch UNDER the pedal is the one that needs to be bypassed. I have disconnected this switch, and the car won't start, regardless of the tranny being in neutral or not, and I have tested it, and found out it's NOT IN PARALLEL with the neutral switch at all.

So, finally, the circuit ND proposed, the one without the relay, should work perfectly if connected between the switch mounted under the clutch pedal and the neutral switch, as shown in his diagram. Even when the neutral switch is not involved in that circuit, it's still a suitable path to ground for the clutch switch signal.

ND: it never crossed my mind that you may have made up the circuits. Believe me: if I had for a second suspected you may have been less than honest, the tone of my replies would've been much different. My point was that the diagram was wrong. Turns out it was us that were looking in the wrong place.

Poison: "mazda geniuses"
I think that the fact that this discussion got to be 7 pages long shows a few hints about this forum

1. The kind of people we are, and the kind of forum we're in. I've been a member of many other forums, and, in most of them, a 7 pages long discussion would have at least 5 pages full of personal attacks and insults. We may have different opinions, but we still managed to discuss them in a civil manner.

2. That we're all involved on helping one of our own not to make a mistake that could be costly.

3. That Mazda would be much better off if they hired us...

[PoisonDrop]

The switch under the pedal is the starter/clutch interlock switch.

Correct.

That switch is supposed to be in parallel with the neutral switch, as per the wiring diagrams.

Incorrect. The switch that is in parallel with the neutral switch is totally different. They call it the clutch switch, but it is nowhere near the clutch. Misleading, yes, but true.

The switch UNDER the pedal is the one that needs to be bypassed. I have disconnected this switch, and the car won't start, regardless of the tranny being in neutral or not, and I have tested it, and found out it's NOT IN PARALLEL with the neutral switch at all.

Correct again. This statement also supports what I just said above. The switch that is in parallel with the neutral switch is totally different. The car won't start when this is disconnected because the starter coil gets 12v directly from this switch.

Now, here's something else we've all been wrong about: THE NEUTRAL SWITCH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STARTING THE CAR. That's right. If you try to start the car with the tranny in gear, it will start, as long as you're depressing the clutch pedal.

But you have to realize that the neutral and clutch switches have nothing to do with starting the car.

That's what I've been saying all along! The starter interlock switch is the ONLY switch that has anything to do with allowing the car to start or not.

The switch on top of the clutch pedal has NOTHING TO DO with starting the car. I have disconnected this switch, and the car starts without a problem, either with the transmission in neutral, or with the transmission in gear.

As far as I know, that switch has nothing to do with ANYTHING. I don't even know what that switch does at all. Never have, never will. I disconnected (and removed) mine as well. Replaced it with a bolt for pedal adjustment.

So, finally, the circuit ND proposed, the one without the relay, should work perfectly if connected between the switch mounted under the clutch pedal and the neutral switch, as shown in his diagram. Even when the neutral switch is not involved in that circuit, it's still a suitable path to ground for the clutch switch signal.

I must disagree with you here. The starter interlock switch (below the clutch), which weagree is the switch that needs to be bypassed, supplies 12v to the starter coil directly from the ignition switch. So you can see why connecting the 12v interlock switch to the neutral switch (which gets grounded) would be an issue.

[PoisonDrop]

Poison: "mazda geniuses"
I think that the fact that this discussion got to be 7 pages long shows a few hints about this forum

1. The kind of people we are, and the kind of forum we're in. I've been a member of many other forums, and, in most of them, a 7 pages long discussion would have at least 5 pages full of personal attacks and insults. We may have different opinions, but we still managed to discuss them in a civil manner.

2. That we're all involved on helping one of our own not to make a mistake that could be costly.

3. That Mazda would be much better off if they hired us...

Agreed. But one of us would probably put 10 current employees out of a job. We just know so much...

Nd4SpdSe: Since you seem to have access to the same diagrams I have, can you please post pages 1 and 2 where these circuits are located? That way we can all look at it together...

[Nd4SpdSe]

Nd4SpdSe: Since you seem to have access to the same diagrams I have, can you please post pages 1 and 2 where these circuits are located? That way we can all look at it together...

Can do!





And fortunately/unfortunately, I agree with everything you (PoisonDrop) said.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Now I see what you mean. You're right, you can't jump the starter/clutch interlock switch to ground. You need a relay. And yeah, the circuit ND proposed is the one.

The switch on top of the clutch is the one in parallel with the neutral switch. I didn't test it, but the wires are the right ones.
And yeah, I don't think getting rid of it would make much of a difference, since it's bypassed by the neutral switch anyways.

[Ryan]

I understand now, too. Crazy that the manuals are so confusing.

Just one question, I don't have (working) cruise, but does pulling it into neutral kill it? It should, right?

[PoisonDrop]

And yeah, I don't think getting rid of it would make much of a difference, since it's bypassed by the neutral switch anyways.

The only thing it made a difference on was the height of the clutch pedal itself. I just used a bolt to even it out with the other pedals. It may make a difference if you have cruise, though. I don't, so I don't really know for sure.

Just one question, I don't have (working) cruise, but does pulling it into neutral kill it? It should, right?

I'm pretty sure that is correct. Again, I don't have cruise, so I'm only going by what the manuals say.