Electric MX3 Conversion

[wytbishop]

I knew a guy...like a friend of a friend...who converted an old Datsun 510 to plug in electric. There are lots of sites and blogs on the webs with all the information you need to do it. There are tonnes of converted cars out there. I always thought that the MX-3 would be a great candidate for conversion because of the large cargo area.

[wytbishop]

Just some food for thought...A company in BC called Canev does bolt on kits for a number of cars and they manufacture adaptor plates for lots of cars including the B6 engine family.

http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Universal ... %20kit.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Component ... 20page.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ...scroll down a bit. It's labeled Mazda B2300

· 1989-1994 Mazda Familia GT
· 1989-1994 Ford Laser TX3
· 1990-1994 Mazda Protege LX
· 1995-1998 Mazda Protege ES
· 1990-1991 and 1993 Mazda Protege GT (Canadian Market)
· 1990-1993 Mazda 323 (European Market)
· 1991-1996 Ford Escort GT and LX-E
· 1991-1996 Mercury Tracer LTS
· 1995-1997 Kia Sephia LS, GS
· 1994-1997 Mazda MX-5/Miata

Their universal kit with the adaptor and a very small bit of fabrication could convert an MX-3 in a week for about $13k.

EDIT: DAMN! now I can't stop thinking about converting an MX-3.

[Newfie_dan]

13k is a lot of coin unless you are saving up for it, although considering fuel savings that would be a pretty good investment. either way it has the potential to be a torque monster, have you ever seen the electric drag cars? They are sick the amount of torque and power they lay down.

[ethand]

you're not reading posts properly - we're wondering what's happened to this guy! His last update was may 2009!

[Evo_Spec]

you're not reading posts properly - we're wondering what's happened to this guy! His last update was may 2009!

hahahaha, oh young one, that's when he joined these forums, his last post was june this year, which is still a while ago

[wytbishop]

I'm pretty sure I'm reading the posts just fine. Don't allow the fact that I'm not addressing the same question as you to lead you to the assumption that I'm not paying attention.

13k is a lot of coin unless you are saving up for it, although considering fuel savings that would be a pretty good investment. either way it has the potential to be a torque monster, have you ever seen the electric drag cars? They are sick the amount of torque and power they lay down.

I can't find where I read it now, but their Chevy S-10 bolt on kit is about $10k. So I figure their universal kit is probably in that ballpark as well. That doesn't include batteries or the fabrication of battery boxes and other mounting bracketry etc. I figure I spend about $2500 a year on fuel and other engine maintenance which would be totally eliminated. I could pay for this conversion in 5 or 6 years. Best part is it's a real car, not some mamby pamby superlight, California only electric leaf blower with wheels. It should easily do 100km on a charge and could be driven all year.

I always said that if someone made a plug in electric car that could survive an Edmonton winter I'd buy one.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Sorry guys to burst your bubble, but the reason why the op hasn't shown up anymore is probably because he finished his project, and finally realized...it sucks.

Don't get me wrong: it IS a cool project, especially for anybody who likes fabrication, but the numbers are just not there. Now, I have argued this in the past, together with some other physics nuts, in several other forums, so I'm not trying to start a debate here. I will just say my bit, and you will decide what to do with it.

So here it is:

The op said he bought a 60KW motor, that produces 110 Nm, with a max rpm of 3000.
60KW, at 744W/HP, equals 80.645 bhp. If you assume a 90% efficiency for the motor (definitely a generous assumption for a cheap Ebay motor), you end up with a whooping 72.58 bhp. That is, 15.5 less hp than a B6 SOHC.
110 Nm, on the other hand, equals 81.131 ft/Lbs, 15 less than the B6 SOHC 96 ft/Lbs.
All of that, with a car that, as per the op's statement, is 100 Kg (220 Lbs) heavier than the original.

Now, with an electric motor, he has the option of keeping or removing the transmission, and replacing it with just a differential.

If he retains the tranny, his performance will be comparable to the B6, minus the differences in hp and torque, and his top speed will be 103 mph @ 3000 rpm. Not that bad at all.

Now, if he decides (to save weight, and minimize power losses) to get rid of the tranny...well...

As I'm sure most of you guys know, the tranny doesn't multiply horsepower, but it does multiply torque.
That means that, in first gear, a B6 MX-3 produces (theoretically), to the wheels, 1439.04 ft/Lbs ( I'm using the B8 1st gear final ratio of 14.99, as I don't have the numbers for the B6 tranny), while the electric motor would only produce its own torque, times the differential final ratio.

Now, the op can here choose several different paths: he can either use the same final ratio of the tranny, to keep most of the top speed, or he can go for a taller ratio, to get more torque, while sacrificing top speed, or he can, of course, choose anything in between.

As I said before, I don't know exactly what the B6 tranny final ratio is, but the B8 final ratio is 2.645 (that's the crankshaft to axle ratio, not the diff ratio), so I will use that one for my example.
With that ratio, he will have a maximum torque of 214.591 ft/Lbs, roughly 1/6 the torque of a B6 in 1st, so let's say that he's not gonna burn much rubber...
Or he can try matching the B6 torque in 1st gear, in which case, he'd need a final ratio of 17.737, which would give him a top speed of...19 mph @ 3000 rpm.
Or, of course, he can try anything in between.

Add to that the maintenance costs (yeah, you don't have to change the oil, but batteries don't last much, especially when they have to be deep cycled every day), electricity costs (which, depending on where you live, it may be comparable, or even higher than the gasoline cost), the hassle of having to remember connecting the car every night, the very limited range, ect, and what you have is not a car, it's a nightmare.

Sorry. Electric cars are a nice concept, but, so far, they're noting but toys. Maybe in the future they'll get somewhere, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Nd4SpdSe]

Sorry. Electric cars are a nice concept, but, so far, they're noting but toys. Maybe in the future they'll get somewhere, but I'm not holding my breath.

I agree, but I must disagree with comparing the electric motor to a B6 or the like. The thing with electric motors is their torque, they make it from 0rpms. I would say on that fact that a longer geared trans would probably be beneficial since you're not looking for a torque sweet-spot

[wytbishop]

Users of Canev's S-10 bolt on system report overwhealmingly positive result with which they couldn't be happier and operating costs in the neighborhood of $0.05 per mile.

Yes you would likely have to replace 1 or 2 deep cycle batteries each year or two, but driveability is reportedly excellent and maintenance costs are extremely low. This coming from lots and lots of users who have been operating EV's for many years of daily use. Go tell all of them how their electric cars suck and see if they agree with you.

Or better yet...just stop.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

The thing with electric motors is their torque, they make it from 0rpms. I would say on that fact that a longer geared trans would probably be beneficial since you're not looking for a torque sweet-spot

True, and that's the only advantage of the electric motor over the ICE. But even when you could use a longer geared tranny, you'd still need a much shorter 1st, and maybe 2nd gear, to be able to get any oomph off the line. And the fact remains that, best case scenario, the electric motor still has less power and torque than the lamest stock ICE that came with the car.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

Users of Canev's S-10 bolt on system report overwhealmingly positive result with which they couldn't be happier and operating costs in the neighborhood of $0.05 per mile.

Yes you would likely have to replace 1 or 2 deep cycle batteries each year or two, but driveability is reportedly excellent and maintenance costs are extremely low. This coming from lots and lots of users who have been operating EV's for many years of daily use. Go tell all of them how their electric cars suck and see if they agree with you.

Or better yet...just stop.

Yeah, and users of the Toyota Prius say it's the best car in the World.

First of all, those are not deep cycle batteries. Deep cycling a battery produces corrosion on the electrodes. For that reason, real deep cycle batteries need to have very deep cases, for the slag from the electrodes to fall into, so it won't short circuit the cell. You can find real deep cycle batteries in electric forklifts, for example. They are typically almost 2 feet deep, and weight about twice as much as a normal battery.
Second, in reality, you will be looking at replacing the whole battery pack every about 2 to 3 years.

Last, I don't need to tell them anything. You're trying to counter numbers with opinions.

Finally, I'm gonna ask you politely to refrain from telling me what I should do, or stop doing. Contrarily to what you may think, all members in this forum have the same right to express their views, as wrong as you may think they are. I provided facts to back up my statements. What are you backing up yours with?

[wytbishop]

You can quote all the amateur physics you like, but when hundreds of users of the product say over and over again that their converted electric cars wrok great, cost 5 cents a mile to operate daily over the course of years and are generally completely satisfied, their opinions carry more than enough weight to get my attention.

And I would never dream of telling you what to do. I was politely asking you to refrain from being...well, you.

[Inodoro Pereyra]

I know I can. I don't need your permission. And, whether you like it or not, "amateur physics" is still physics, and the fact that you choose to disregard it doesn't make it any less valid.

About the opinions of the "hundreds of users"...of course: Eat sh!t: billions of flies can't possibly be wrong.

And one last thing: if that's what you call being "polite", we're definitely using different dictionaries.

[hgallegos915]

If you come out with an electric conversion that can do at least 60 miles lmk pls.

The electric motorcycles have somewhere around that range for 9 thousand dllrs and 4thousand in other states. (government tax credits)

Im sure an electric mx3 that costs 13k to make can cost around 7k to make in different parts of the states due to government credits.

[wytbishop]

a lot of your science seems to revolve around ignoring the input of the people actually making use of the thing that you insist sucks and liking it.

While you're explaining to them how their cars suck you should add the part about comparing them to flies on a pile of s---. I'm sure that will help round out your argument to them...oh wait, you don't need to tell them because their opinions are insignificant in the shadow of your overwhealming logic.

You are one pompous M.F.